HELP; Three VERY odd tress from atop a brick mound... What ARE they?

Black

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(Hope this is in the right thread)

It was a very saddening day and as usual, some of my beautiful trees managed to cheer me up. But the ones that did this greatest lately are pretty unusual ones.

History;
A good few months back (late spring) on one of my usual through country, through parks and etc bicycle ride I had noticed that there were actually trees where I thought I had seen simple plants. I had no idea to what the stone mound was, but heard that it did date back to the world war maybe older…

It was a difficult climb through the wild hederas on the very loose/slippery structure. But very rewarding…
What I had so many times seen and even thought to be a weed of some sort was of my favourites: a cherry tree! I have NO idea to why it was there but it was and it grew between the conjunction of three bricks still stuck to each other.
There were two more that you were not able to see from the road: one almost looked like it was a Larix decidua by branch but had very tiny unmistakable deciduous leaves. I had thought the other to be also a cherry, but of different cultivar…

I returned within an hours ride back and forth to collect them and it was a shocking experience to note how the plants managed to survive in such restricted space between corroded mortars. The removal took up to 4 hours a day for about almost four days. The biggy was the hardest and took longest as I had to first remove bricks (not the usual sized ones these) as it had rooted under the brick it was atop (In such conditions I tend to try covering the exposed roots as I remove the stones).

Now since then I had left them to settle for months save from the cherry that I wrapped with heavy raffia and wired it in autumn to give it a shape I hoped to fit.


THIS is they get odd…

The Big one was simply not a cherry, and not like anything else I know of. It has three different bark structures on the base a bit above the base and the matured branches. Unfortunately I only have winter photo’s that I have taken recently… I do not recall the leaf too well, but I am presuming elm like due to my jumping to the conclusion of cherry.






The odd shaped larix stemmed one (I named it "ribs" for now), really does not fit any of the trees you would commonly find in the wild here.
The leaves did not fall off in the winter cold… and only half of them turned red.
(I did not do any wiring, the wire wrapped around was loose wrapped but left on for later shaping. I preffered to wait until I figure out what this is.











Weirder yet I had planted the branches I had cut off and crudely planted them in a foam pot (for isolation) with not usual precautions of a make do propagation covering. Well these guys bud like crazy two days ago! These are two of the four branches I had planted.









The cherry; (Prunus cerasus to be exact), was of the only normal one… but below are the photo’s of it taken earlier this afternoon… in WINTER in a temperate zone!
The buds are VERY fresh, and this vigour is from only 6-7 days growth with no earlier signs of such activity (Also why it's dressed as a mummy).
No they were NOT nursed indoors; No I have not frozen them and brought them out; No I didn’t even feed them since dropped all the leaves… I have three more Prunus cerasus that are in the exact same conditions and no sign of simiallar growth there… I have NEVER seen anything like it!
(Not really complaining)







Now here’s the bit that my questions come along…
  • Any idea of the species of the first two trees?
  • And also; ANY idea to why they might be so joyously budding?


FYI: I live in north-mid Belgium and the whether here HAS gotten better in the last two weeks and has not frozen for some time. Additionally it has been constantly rainy and casually windy (All my plants are well sheltered from winds outside). None of the three has flowered. They were all set on foam benches and had coco fibers or dry leaves carpet to protect from cold. The two had surprisingly litle roots, the big on had a very long log like root about half a meter shaped to fit the mortar; all it's roots spread from here.
The little leaves were not shrunk by defoilation... they are the remainders of the same leaves that were on it from months back.
Unfortunately none of them have a spring photo.

I am almost too sure that all of three have grown from seed thus I have scanned the area for trees similar. I saw a fair amount of prunus, but the search was as a result to no use.

I really hope that one of you know what these three are all about.


Black

Ps; I can provide more photos to your needs or what not.
 
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Can't really say for sure, but the one you call Larix looks like Cotoneaster to me...But then again, I've only seen Cotoneaster a couple of times IRL so...
 

Graydon

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Can't really say for sure, but the one you call Larix looks like Cotoneaster to me...But then again, I've only seen Cotoneaster a couple of times IRL so...
I agree. But same here on seeing them in person, only a few times.
 

ianb

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Yeah, ribs is definitely cotoneaster, the first one might be a birch, would know better with a leaf pic.
 
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Based on what I have read from you on other forums, the question of if you had permission to collect these begs to be asked. Not the mention the considerations of disturbing a stone mound that may well be historical.


Other questions that come to mind are....what did you see in these young trees that made you want to collect them and what kind of soil is that you have them planted in?





Will
 
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Black

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CottonEaster;
No, it's not..., Graydon, Fred-4-u, Ianb, I had ruled that out a dear while ago from the leaves being so small in size. They have not fallen save for few per week into this far in the winter. And the Cotoneasters I have here seen yet are not at all with such small leaves… I figured I would be about the same. Anyone with experience?

The cuttings were taken indoors about four months ago when I had shortened it in fall... and they too are giving very small leaves.

Are you guys sure?

Birch;
Ianb, it is a very common tree around here and one grows to recognise it pretty instantly. We are mostly crowded with Pendula (everywhere), Nigra(everywhere), Papyrifera(Parks, homes), and Ermanii (Mostly parks) … though in the wild part of the park across the city prison I have found a patch of Pubescens I think… not TOO sure though (I don’t know the cultivar as well)

Of those above I have thought that it had a Betula Nigra like bark at the time, but instantly ruled it out due to the leaves (The buds don’t fit in either).
They were very “Cherry like” to be honest… though actually they were not too obviously cherry.
For your need of leaves; All of my leaves are compost (or to be) now… But shall the weather better some time I am planning on giving the guy another visit. There may be remnants of dried samples.



I have a theory of these guys all being fruit trees and ‘somehow’ remained from something someone ate. Can’t rule out plums for example.


Based on what I have read from you on other forums, the question of if you had permission to collect these begs to be asked. Not the mention the considerations of disturbing a stone mound that may well be historical.
I have a foolish habbit of telling when I take something. Please read the thread you mention to end.
I have permission granted from the farmland owner that is the one that has been also the one that informed me of the date of the mound. It is someone that is no stranger to me thus my permission to stroll freely searching for similar specimens.
The historic bit: He tends to make use of the “dingen” (Means "stuff", Not my words) at some time and offered the Hedera as well if I accept to clean all of it off.
What do you need for proof.
(I can really understand your question, but I am irritated)

The potmix and feeding:
For the Prunus I have a mix that I used pretty often with humus clay and gravel added to a ready "propagation soil" (I have very good results with it with my other cherrys); and for the other two I kept the soil rich with humus trying to ensure drainage.
The last time I repotted them was when collected and the last time I fed them was possibly mid September beginning November due to long lasting fall.

Once or twice a month I have given their turn of my remains of my tea (interchangeably mint and/or Ceylon). Which actually should be called feeding… But nothing I have not done to my other plants.
I thought that it could be from how they got more freedom, but this never happened to my plants I have.

The feeding was a combination of slow release and liquid feeding when practiced. It is evident that pellets of the slow release is still there. Additionally I would follow the principle I had while feeding our dog; “Give them what you eat”…so it was very common that I would grind egg shells or savour tea remains.

What I saw? (odd question.. but a good one):
The two prunus varieties… they were simply beautiful! Splendid infact.
Ribs; more in the lines of exploring. It looked like nothing other that I had worked with. It lacked grace to general standard and it was pretty awkward.
Do note that as much a age is a relative concept, I fear that these are not "young" by manywill heath; you must be mistaken.


This was a post I wanted to start into this forum with... but had thought I would wait for spring. With the budding of ribs cuttings I figured I was just too curious.


Black

Ps: I have not really come across cottoneaster in the area or am just not too aware of it's description... that said I do not really see any regional trees matching either.
You may like to browse through THIS SITE which has a splendid archieve of what you can actually expect to find naturaly here.
 
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Black

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Wow! My first Cotoneaster then :)
I have been asking for one specific "Kwijker" in the "Bloem Markt" (tree/flower Nursery/greenhouse owners that come to a flower/tree market weekly here) that import more radical cultivars from Holland. But no results yet.

No offence Andy, but still having my doubts I am going to seriously get into research on cotoneasters through the net. But thats enough internet for now (and over 36 hours of no rest :( )... need to lay down an hour or so and then go fetch my little baby (son).

Black
 

AndyWilson

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Black, keep searching as long as you like, i have hundreds of them around me. its definately a cotoneaster. One of my favourite plants. pick it up from the nursery 10 mins work put it in a pot then sell it;)

People around here love them (and serrisas) they can see beautiful olives and great acacias that have been worked on for years, but the cotoneasters and serrisas that take us ten minutes to trim and pot are the ones that sell the most... Sad but quite funny too. Thats what the people like, Mallsai
 

Black

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Cotoneaster Horizontalis? (I think 'Variegatus')

Hmmm…
that’s really interesting...
Tell you what: I never liked the word ribs (though it really fit one of the cuttings), I’ll name this guy: Andy :)

I think I DO see the plant HERE to when it had all the leaves on it still (It is the one you mention of right?).

For a long time I was prejudice about cotoneaster being in the lines of THIS or THIS and many simiallar… never dug too deep into the plant.
Guess that would be the:“mistake on my part”…
Thanks to all you guys for pointing it out!

The problem I am having is that:
It did not bloom, it did not have a purplish winter colour, and definitely did not fruit. The rest of the description does tend to match.

I think the flowering may be of the collecting stress… I’ll see how things go for this growth season and try to upload a few photos shall I manage to pinpoint the cultivar.


That makes:
Two down… ONE to go!


Thank you;
No, it's not..., Graydon, Fred-4-u, Ianb and Andy for helping me out on this


Black
 

AndyWilson

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Check out the bottom two pics here http://www.weeds.org.au/cgi-bin/weedident.cgi?tpl=plant.tpl&state=&ibra=all&card=S01

And here http://www.weedsbluemountains.org.au/cotoneaster.asp

Not the greatest pics but i think closer to the correct species. Check out Cotoneaster microphyllus too, here are some pics of some of mine in very early growing stages.

As for them not blooming well they may not do that if you stress the roots too much. From what i have been told cotoneaster do not like their roots messed about with too much, here we take them down gradually.

Mine didnt bloom at all when i remove a large portion of roots i didnt like. But then the next year the blooms and fruit where back...
 

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Black

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You see, that was what the problem was Andy... I had found photo’s similar of yours and the links… and none of them much resembling “Andy” … I didn’t even think it an option.

Only with you guys insisting have I dug deeper into cotoneaster to find the horizontalis as mentioned.
Lets hope this year I see some flowers, some fruits and what not :)

Now all of my cuttings and Andy are budding pretty vigorously!
I gather they handle propagation and layering pretty well?

Thank you again for your and everyone’s interest.


Black
 

onthefringe

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Try Cotoneaster Lucidous or hedge cotoneaster. I just planted about 6 or 8 this past fall. Although yours seem a bit short-ish. But definetly absolutley cotoneaster.

The other mystery tree looks like it might be a Linden or as they are also called in Europe small leafed lime by the buds and bark coloration. Try Tilia Cordata
 
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