Help with decision about removal of a branch

[Matthew Rudling]

I picked a rather old and gnarled Juniper Chinesis at a nursery which was in bad health at the time. I have left it alone these past few months but I have noticed that it is about to get inverse taper due to the Y shaped branches coming off the trunk. The inverse taper is not visible as it is happening on the front and back of tree as viewed from the sides. I am pretty new to Junipers and conifers and wanted some wisdom and advice in choosing which branch to remove. So far I am leaning to removing/jinning the right, thinner branch because the thicker one on the left shows better character and would result in better taper. I have attached some photos.

 

[Colorado]

I agree with your plan to jin the right branch. You should be able to get good movement into the remaining branch with some wire. Nice!

 

[Matthew Rudling]

I agree with your plan to jin the right branch. You should be able to get good movement into the remaining branch with some wire. Nice!

Say I’ve wired the left branch before, would I have to wait for it recover before rewiring?

 

[Colorado]

Looks ready to me!

 

[Shibui]

Why will choosing the thicker trunk giving better taper?
Usually I remove the thicker trunk and keeping the thinner one to give better taper bit there are many other factors to consider - further branching to continue taper and give more bends; branching and foliage close to the trunk to develop compact shape; direction of the bend and branches to give pleasing bends.
Jin and shari are both natural for junipers so always consider dead wood when reducing junipers. If you decide afterwards that jin is not good it can easily be chopped off. Much harder to put one back after pruning so I'd make jin first and check how it looks.

Say I’ve wired the left branch before, would I have to wait for it recover before rewiring?

The original post mentions you've done nothing to this one for months which means no problem with wiring again now.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Personally see no problem with keeping all that's there.

 

[Matthew Rudling]

Why will choosing the thicker trunk giving better taper?
Usually I remove the thicker trunk and keeping the thinner one to give better taper bit there are many other factors to consider - further branching to continue taper and give more bends; branching and foliage close to the trunk to develop compact shape; direction of the bend and branches to give pleasing bends.
Jin and shari are both natural for junipers so always consider dead wood when reducing junipers. If you decide afterwards that jin is not good it can easily be chopped off. Much harder to put one back after pruning so I'd make jin first and check how it looks.

The original post mentions you've done nothing to this one for months which means no problem with wiring again now.

So let me clarify, the thicker branch not for taper but character and speed because it is thicker with bends and more foliage. The right branch would provide more flexibility for more drastic bends though.

I should be looking at secondary branches to see if there are good leaders?

 

[Matthew Rudling]

Personally see no problem with keeping all that's there.

The beginning of inverse taper is quite noticeable from the side view. A similar thing happened to a maple I picked up with that Y structure.

 

[Vin]

In my opinion the left branch is useless. The old rule is "prune for taper". If the left branch is the one you're saying has reverse taper then that multiplies the reasons for jinning or removing it. Just my opinion though.

 

[Matthew Rudling]

So

In my opinion the left branch is useless. The old rule is "prune for taper". If the left branch is the one you're saying has reverse taper then that multiplies the reasons for jinning or removing it. Just my opinion though.

the left branch is simpler the thicker of the two. The trunk is getting reverse taper from having Y branches. The top of the trunk is swelling at where the two branches meet.

 

[Vin]

So

the left branch is simpler the thicker of the two. The trunk is getting reverse taper from having Y branches. The top of the trunk is swelling at where the two branches meet.

The brutal truth is you really don't have much to work with at the moment. If it was mine, I'd work on compacting it and strategic back budding until it's at a point where you can work with it and set it on the direction you have planned.

 

[Matthew Rudling]

Thank you I really appreciate that frank advice. Prune the left branch, keep the right and work on getting back budding as the tree strengthens?

The brutal truth is you really don't have much to work with at the moment. If it was mine, I'd work on compacting it and strategic back budding until it's at a point where you can work with it and set it on the direction you have planned.

 

[River's Edge]

I picked a rather old and gnarled Juniper Chinesis at a nursery which was in bad health at the time. I have left it alone these past few months but I have noticed that it is about to get inverse taper due to the Y shaped branches coming off the trunk. The inverse taper is not visible as it is happening on the front and back of tree as viewed from the sides. I am pretty new to Junipers and conifers and wanted some wisdom and advice in choosing which branch to remove. So far I am leaning to removing/jinning the right, thinner branch because the thicker one on the left shows better character and would result in better taper. I have attached some photos.View attachment 420800
View attachment 420801

The tree at this point appears to have very little foliage and therefore is in no danger of creating inverse taper any time soon. Actually it appears to be a young specimen that has been overworked at this point. Does not appear to be an olden gnarled specimen, simply a close up photo of a young juniper as indicated by the plastic pot rim in the background of the photo and the size of the roots. Also the right smallest branch appears to have had all side foliage removed so Jin or removal appears to be the only option. I would advise letting it gain strength and increase the amount of foliage before continuing to work the tree.
When the tree has enough strength to move forward I would be incline to create more taper and movement by reducing to one trunk line as follows.
1. Remove the left thicker branch.
2. Remove the right side branch at the first Y movement.
This combines movement and taper with two step downs in trunk diameter and several changes of direction. It also leaves thinner portions to wire and form for further design.
Just another perspective, obviously we are viewing this situation differently.

 

[Vin]

Thank you I really appreciate that frank advice. Prune the left branch, keep the right and work on getting back budding as the tree strengthens?

@River's Edge plan is on point.

 

[Matthew Rudling]

The tree at this point appears to have very little foliage and therefore is in no danger of creating inverse taper any time soon. Actually it appears to be a young specimen that has been overworked at this point. Does not appear to be an olden gnarled specimen, simply a close up photo of a young juniper as indicated by the plastic pot rim in the background of the photo and the size of the roots. Also the right smallest branch appears to have had all side foliage removed so Jin or removal appears to be the only option. I would advise letting it gain strength and increase the amount of foliage before continuing to work the tree.
When the tree has enough strength to move forward I would be incline to create more taper and movement by reducing to one trunk line as follows.
1. Remove the left thicker branch.
2. Remove the right side branch at the first Y movement.
This combines movement and taper with two step downs in trunk diameter and several changes of direction. It also leaves thinner portions to wire and form for further design.
Just another perspective, obviously we are viewing this situation differently.

Thank you, I’ll let it grow a bit more. It was in a very bad state when I got the tree. I’ll let it recover for another season then and report back here with new photos!

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[Vin]

By example, the plant in the image below is not bonsai (I just pulled it off Google Images). Besides the wiring abomination, it's basically a long thin branch that looks nothing like a tree. Could this ever be a bonsai? Maybe, but it's going to take some time, a lot of time. Keep your lower branches and work on shortening them. Bring the foliage closer to the base. In the case below, it needs to go in the ground or a bigger container. The plant looks somewhat vigorous so you could probably cut back 1/3 of the long center, dare I say, trunk. Let it regain strength and repeat. In the mean time, go work on something else. A few years down the road you'll have something to work with.

 

[Matthew Rudling]

Keep your lower branches and work on shortening them. Bring the foliage closer to the base.

Would shortening the lower branches induce budding closer to the base?

 

[Vin]

Would shortening the lower branches induce budding closer to the base?

It's doubtful. They'll just start budding where the branch meets the base. Shortening the lower branches will induce growth along that branch. However, you want your lower branches thicker to fatten up the base.

 

[Shibui]

Would shortening the lower branches induce budding closer to the base?

Maybe.
@River's Edge mentioned tree vigour and health earlier. Many deciduous species will bud vigorously when pruned but conifers grow differently. They seem to need to be strong and healthy before they produce reliable budding. I find the best way to get reliable new shoots on junipers is to get the tree really healthy and let it grow first. I believe that's the basis of the advice above. Your juniper may or may not respond well to pruning depending on how strong and healthy it currently is.
My advice would be to check the soil and roots first. The tree may be weak from 'overwork' or may just have poor roots from bad soil, root bound, lack of nutrients or inappropriate care. Try to work out what the tree needs, fix the problems and get it healthy first then work on design second.
Leaving more foliage will generally help junipers gain strength. Removing foliage reduces strength.
I also agree that reverse taper is of little concern while the tree is unhealthy and growing very slowly. Reverse taper is also not such a problem in juniper because we can create deadwood to disguise and cover those problems far easier than with deciduous species.

 

[River's Edge]

Would shortening the lower branches induce budding closer to the base?

No it will not! Your tree is short of foliage already based on the pictures. Juniper will need extension of new growth in the ten to twelve centimetre range before you can expect as strong bud back reaction. And this is only if there is also sufficient foliage ) health and vigour retained to help the tree through the transition. For example foliage left behind the cut back to keep good energy flowing through the branches.
Your best bet at this point is to strengthen for one or two years before working the tree.
When your tree shows this type of extension along with healthy foliage behind to cut back to then it will be good to go! The extensions should appear as the one on the right in this picture.