Help with maple ID

[BrightsideB]

My buddy pulled these two maples out of the ground as seedlings in the same location I have pulled several mutant jm’s out at. It is in an area with over 30 mature jm maples many different cultivars. I figured these two were tridents. But there aren’t any around and they were growing with all Japanese maples. Another one of those things I am trying to make sense of. What do you think?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Definitely not Trident maples, which have three clearly defined lobes and lack the additional pair of lobes at the base of the leaf.

That said, they don't look like Japanese maples to me. Perhaps A. rubrum(?)

 

[Shogun610]

My buddy pulled these two maples out of the ground as seedlings in the same location I have pulled several mutant jm’s out at. It is in an area with over 30 mature jm maples many different cultivars. I figured these two were tridents. But there aren’t any around and they were growing with all Japanese maples. Another one of those things I am trying to make sense of. What do you think?

That is a Amur maple

 

[Forsoothe!]

I remind everyone that the reason we have so many Maple varieties is that they are genetically unstable and we don't know much about which characteristics are dominant or recessive and when you have 30 cultivars in close proximity the possible crosses are infinite. And who knows how many other Maples are near enough to participate?

 

[hinmo24t]

good looking, the tree too. jp

 

[BrightsideB]

That is a Amur maple

Thanks, it does look like them. I see a lot of varieties. They also have small foliage. Cool tree. Is there a reason Nurseries don’t carry them. I don’t believe I have ever seen these before lol they are cool trees though!

 

[Forsoothe!]

Amur are fertile with a capital F. They are considered invasive in lots of areas.

 

[BrightsideB]

Amur are fertile with a capital F. They are considered invasive in lots of areas.

I’m going to start keeping and eye out for them in my area on hikes and such. Are the leaves this small due to container growing? I find it interesting that only two were found under the jm along with red green and lace leaf seedlings. I understand the seeds could of simply blown there. But entertaining the fact that the jm could have produced them. I don’t know if that is possible. I have a very vast variety of maples I have found under that tree.

 

[rockm]

Looks like amur maple to me also. However, this species is invasive in mostly Northern states--down to Kentucky. As its name suggests (Amur is southeastern Siberia) it prefers cold and extremely cold winters . . It's hardy to something like -10 F or something. It's an unnusual find for you in Georgia, If that's what it is..It may be in your area because of higher elevation .Acer ginnala also has variable leaf shape. It's not really great bonsai material. I have several fair to good Amur as bonsai here in Va. They're unstable here and drop limbs and rot easily. It most likely won't be long-lived in your area given the length of the summer and shallow winters...

 

[penumbra]

I have some Amurs about 4 years now from 2 year seedlings. They have been every bit as vigorous as Tridents for me.

 

[rockm]

I have some Amurs about 4 years now from 2 year seedlings. They have been every bit as vigorous as Tridents for me.

I've been growing amur for 20 years now. Got my initial seedlings from Bill Valavanis back then. Still have them. They are extremely vigorous, but they're also hard to manage, particularly with large pruning wounds. They also have clumsy backbudding and growth habits with not anywhere near the refinement potential as tridents. They grow like mad, but that brings challenges, They tend to bud out in early Feb. I don't provide ANY winter protection for them to slow them down. Doesn't really help. Also, large pruning wounds tend to rot--quickly, down the trunk interior.

Since you're in Front Rial, you have colder winters than the lowland swamp I live in ;-)

 

[BrightsideB]

Looks like amur maple to me also. However, this species is invasive in mostly Northern states--down to Kentucky. As its name suggests (Amur is southeastern Siberia) it prefers cold and extremely cold winters . . It's hardy to something like -10 F or something. It's an unnusual find for you in Georgia, If that's what it is..It may be in your area because of higher elevation .Acer ginnala also has variable leaf shape. It's not really great bonsai material. I have several fair to good Amur as bonsai here in Va. They're unstable here and drop limbs and rot easily. It most likely won't be long-lived in your area given the length of the summer and shallow winters...

That makes a lot more sense to me. I don’t believe I have ever seen one in the wild around here or I would have investigated it due to it’s small leaves. We are about 1000ft above sea level. I’m also going to investigate the location when I can and see if I can find one in the area. I may ask my buddy if I can have one and grow it to see how it does as far as dieback and such. May have good genetics. Not betting on it though.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I’m going to start keeping and eye out for them in my area on hikes and such. Are the leaves this small due to container growing? I find it interesting that only two were found under the jm along with red green and lace leaf seedlings. I understand the seeds could of simply blown there. But entertaining the fact that the jm could have produced them. I don’t know if that is possible. I have a very vast variety of maples I have found under that tree.

It's close by, -look around. They are small trees like JM.