What exactly do you mean by....''I went down to a large bonsai pot, leaving the core root ball untouched'' ? If you cut down the size of the root ball and placed it in a large pot with lots of room around the roots (more that 1'') AND the new soil was a lot coarser than that in the root ball, you will lose it.
Help with my white pine
- Thread starter Phillthy
- Start date
Adamantium
Mame
Well, the new soil is about 1/8-1/16” diatomaceous earth and lava, and it’s coming from nursery soil.
The new pot is pretty tight. Less than 1” around the edges. Think it’s a goner?
That's very hard to predict. The root room sounds ok. The mix is a bit bony for my liking but it might work well in the NE US?? I presume there was no mycorrhizae in the roots? If not you need to get some in there. There is a way to tell if the roots have mycos even if you can't see the white mold. There will be short knobby roots here and there. This means that in the right environment the fungus will proliferate. To do that use low N and very low P., keep in full sun, and water only infrequently until you see signs of recovery. When you check for dryness it's vital that you dig down and check the root ball for moisture NOT the new surrounding soil. If it's moist you don't need to water. When you do water, give A LOT then let it dry out again. You can mist as often as you like but not so much that it drips onto the mix. Use a good kelp product now and then to stimulate root growth but the most important thing is the wet/dry cycle. Good luck!
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
I am very surprised nobody suggested to use mycorrhizal fungi when potting this tree especially if you're bare rooting it
Was already gone over on previous pages
.Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Not dry like cactus. Complete dryness is deadness. Also if too dry will shut down growth if in growing season.
Additional question arises since presently on fire escape where will tree spend winter? About 99% probability would not survive inside house
.
Adamantium
Mame
I actually have a pretty decent little overwintering shelter I built out there. I was under the impression JWP could get pretty cold, though?Not dry like cactus. Complete dryness is deadness. Also if too dry will shut down growth if in growing season.
Additional question arises since presently on fire escape where will tree spend winter? About 99% probability would not survive inside house
Adamantium
Mame
Thank you so much for the thorough reply. Here’s hoping!
I saw white fungus when I repotted, but only on the outside of the rootball. Hopefully some was in the middle, as well.
I really want this bad boy to pull through, so I’ll do exactly this. I have fish emulsion to fertilize with, and I’ll use a chopstick to make sure the root ball actually gets fairly dried out.
Thanks, again!
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
Mycorrhizae are in and on pine roots from the moment of germination.
adding new ones, new strains, will create a mycological warfare. That might be a bad idea. The aim for now should be restoration, not competition.
The pine is hosting them right now, otherwise it wouldn't have come this far.
I'll cook up some agar and show the forum how fast mycorrhizae restore.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Yes but this is JWP on JBP rootstock. You have to treat them like JBP for winter care.
Adamantium
Mame
Ah, duh. Good point. And JBP aren’t as winter hardy? I’ll definitely provide wind protection.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
correct.
Adamantium
Mame
Well that's good to know. Thanks!
It seems to be harder to find out specifics about winter hardiness than I would've expected. I guess it depends on a lot of complicating factors like pot size, microclimate, etc..
Japonicus
Masterpiece
Still curious what the OP unearthed @Phillthy
...but when I find myself forgetting which pine hates the warmer climates
I think of the drive to the Gulf through the Blackwater River St Pk in Florida
or anywhere else in Florida’s forests for that matter, and quickly recall all the BP’s we drive through.
They do well in that, more salty warmer climate, but I don’t recall seeing any WP’s there.
Actually none of that is strictly correct. There have been trials done to see the effects with and without mycos. If there is none in the media or on the seed then there is no inoculation and plants perform less than optimally but they can continue to survive. There is no issue with myco ''warefare'' The one (or more) most adapted to the environment will prevail. It is true that there is no need to add new mycos if it is already present but then I never did suggest that.
Last edited:
Obviously. By dry I mean down to about 30% moisture. To our eyes, this can look very dry indeed but there is always a little moisture left in the centre of the root ball. That is the time you water again.
Japonicus
Masterpiece
Could it be a confidence thing? You certainly have much more experience than I at potting anything.
I would think a bare rooting would remove most traces with a jet of water,
then the tree being weak on top of bare rooting, then placing in a mico free medium...it would be beneficial.
I certainly never pot up a pine without it, and I'm not convinced that it's a money driven factor yet, to offer it to the trade.
I think what Adair means is that there is usually no need to add it because once it is present in the roots, even if you wash all the mycelium away, it will re-colonize the soil quickly. But I have seen pines (no many mind) without mycos on the roots and they do very poorly indeed unless it is re-introduced and the root environment changed in their favour. Using some systemic fungicides and/or over feeding and or over watering can kill mycos
River's Edge
Masterpiece
Winter Hardiness is usually in reference to Zone tolerance and trees or plants in the ground. Typically if they say a tree is ok for zone 8, than think zone 9 or 10 in a pot. Then the variables come in as to providing some form of winter protection or the opposite, some type of dormancy. For JBP the guideline i have been given by experienced pine growers is that they are fine up to -10 Celsius as long as it does not stay for too long. I believe that is about 14 degrees Fahrenheit. One of the other variables involve how wet the roots are when it freezes. Also one should consider that weaker, or recovering trees should receive extra protection.
Last edited:
Well, for one thing, I don’t use a “jet” of water to clean roots when bare rooting. A soft spray, yes, but not a jet. The mychorazzae spores are in the air. If conditions are favorable, it will grow. It actually prefers dryer conditions. So, when we see root rot, or root balls that comprise a high percentage of organics, we don’t see much mychorazzae because it’s just too wet.
If you are repotting a healthy tree, and want to make sure you keep a good population of mychorrazae going, it does no harm to this s tablespoon of the old soil back in the pot.
That said, when I’ve been potting trees at Boon’s, I’ve been there for hundreds of repotting. Never, not once have we ever “inoculated” a pot with any kind of mychorrazae! It just happens on its own.
It has to do more of having a suitable soil mixture, and following good watering practices.
Let me add thatwe generally don’t completely bare root conifers unless it’s an emergency. Usually, we bare root half the root ball one year, then the next year follow up and do the other side. Most of the time,once a tree is growing in good soil, no barerooting at all is performed
Here is a root ball I just started to work:
The lower half had been bare rooted the year before, into Boon Mix, and was full of white mychorrazae. The dark upper hhslf was the original soil from the nursery. Mostly pinebark and sand. Very little mychorrazae present! That’s because the pinebark and sand mix just holds too much water!
I had just started working the bottom of the rootball when I noticed the striking difference between to two halves.
No mychorazza was ever added to this tree.
