Help with some 3 year old trees

[bonsai-novice]

Hello,

I was hoping I might be able to get some help concerning these trees.

One is a sweet chestnut that I planted about 3 years ago.

The other is a beech tree that seeded itself.

I was wondering whether they would be suitable for turning into bonsai and, if so, whether anyone might have any ideas for what to do to these trees?

I don't know how to look at something without much shape and imagine what it could be.

Any help would be greatly appreciated thanks.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Greetings! Come in! Warm your roots by the fire!

Those are some nice little trees, the beech is a good candidate for “tinytree” applications.
I am uncertain if Chestnuts make the most ideal candidates, or not(Not sure if you can reduce those leaves, but I bet SOMEBODY knows), but that shouldn’t discourage you. I have quite a few “non-ideal” potted friends which I love and nurture with the same amount of care.

As for design and future concept, I would let them go wild for a year or so (if I was antsy and wanted to start working on a smaller design) then chop low (especially the beech.. i know little of chestnut’s growth habits.), using the new growth or lower existing branches to start creating your structure (or both).
In the end, it’s going to depend on your ideas for/about the plants themselves as you observe their growth and learn about them. The chances of any realistic finished design ideas “jumping out and grabbing you” at these plants PARTICULAR stage of development is very low, but again, that should NOT discourage you.

This is all, of course, my opinion. My opinion has DEFINITELY let me down before. Lol

Just thought i’d extend a few welcoming words and an outstretched hand until the “big dogs” can get here and give you some experience-driven answers.

 

[bonsai-novice]

Thanks for your advice and ideas. All help and suggestions are greatly appreciated as I haven't got a clue where to start when they are still so young. Thanks again

 

[HorseloverFat]

Thanks for your advice and ideas. All help and suggestions are greatly appreciated as I haven't got a clue where to start when they are still so young. Thanks again

Your design may have to remain liquid and variable for some time.. In the meantime, focus on the tree’s health, working from the root system up (probably too late for root-work at this current time, though) Your overall idea will become more accessible with time. It’s most likely good to use this time to foster and boost health. The healthier the version of themselves they are, the more intricacies and avenues they will present to you (most likely)

What I would do, is “Let it go, then chop it low.”

....but I’m kind of a buffoon.

 

[bonsai-novice]

Your design may have to remain liquid and variable for some time.. In the meantime, focus on the tree’s health, working from the root system up (probably too late for root-work at this current time, though) Your overall idea will become more accessible with time. It’s most likely good to use this time to foster and boost health. The healthier the version of themselves they are, the more intricacies and avenues they will present to you (most likely)

What I would do, is “Let it go, then chop it low.”

....but I’m kind of a buffoon.

thanks again for the extra advice.


When you say chop the beech low, you you mean down to the split in the trunk, or would you go down further than that?

Do you know whether planting them in a large plant pot would have the same effect as planting it in the ground

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

There are a thousand different ways to get to a nice bonsai from you seedlings like what you have there.

Planting in a larger container will have an effect more like growing in the ground than keeping in a small pot. BUT it is not the same as growing in the ground. Growing in the ground is the fastest way to increase caliper of the trunk. But fastest is not always the "best". In a container, you have more control, and slower growth is easier to keep refined.

How easy is it for you to get down on your knees or belly to take a good look at a tree growing in the ground?. Versus how easy is it to lift a container to a table to work on? Since I weigh enough for 2 people, I keep all trees in containers. Getting down on my belly to evaluate and prune or wire a tree is just not going to happen..

You can get reasonable growth in a large nursery container. You should use a wide, shallow container. The average off the shelf bonsai pot is usually less than 4 inches in interior depth. It is important to start training for a shallow root system as early as possible. A wide shallow container that holds 3 to 5 gallons (12 to 20 liters) is large enough to get most seedlings up to 2 inches in diameter.

I have had chestnuts, an experiment that lasted 3 years, abruptly ended when "caretaker" neglected to water them while I was away. In many ways, all the techniques used for beech apply to chestnuts. Chestnuts have leaves larger than beech, that do reduce but not quickly, and not as nicely as beech. Plan on your chestnut bonsai finishing somewhere in the 2 to 4 foot tall range. Smaller than 2 feet the tree will not cooperate.

Both your trees need to grow this year. So just keep them happy & growing. Read up on Walter Pall's Hedge Pruning method. It is a good way to develop a trunk without planting the tree in the ground. And a good way to avoid radical chops.

 

[HorseloverFat]

It would depend, for me, on what happens during the “let it go” portion... it may be below the split, it may not be. ..with beech trees, i’ve found that the yearly “flush” on new growth doesn’t really compare to that of some other species.. so you have to keep that in mind when anticipating the growth season. In other words, i’ve noticed they “give less back”.
If it were ME, it would be below the split, but that’s definitely not the only way to go.

Do you know whether planting them in a large plant pot would have the same effect as planting it in the ground

No it will not. I have heard about moderate success in barrel-style growing...But those aren’t bonsai-people, and maintaining a vienna-esque pot seems far more laborious then planting in the ground. (If you are going in that direction.)

 

[bonsai-novice]

Just an update and quick question about this chestnut tree. During the latter half of the summer just gone, it decided to put out a lot of new growth from a bulbous bit at the base of the trunk. Does anyone know whether it would be best practice to cut these all off now, or would it be better to let them grow to see what itvwill do, or to help thicken it maybe?

 

[bonsai-novice]

My beech tree is coming into leaf again and I was thinking about wiring it?

The 2 main uprights look like they are going to cross over so would it be best to cut that now, or is that the kind of thing you do over winter?

Hopefully you can see, a smaller branch is coming our of one of the main ones? I was thinking of wiring that either outwards to sort of flatten it, or to make it have 3 up right bits? I don't suppose anyone has any suggestions?

 

[sorce]

In that you want your branches to match your trunk, you don't want to put too much movement into them, if you intend to keep and or keep straight that lower trunk.

Of course, the "musclyness"(or is that hornbeam?) Could lessen the look of that straight section, but you can already begin to see the disconnect between it and the more movey next 2 segments.

I think this isn't so far along that it would be too harsh to say, of you intend to keep everything present, you can start and continue better with more intention.

If this has buds or possibility of buds low on that straight part, I'd look to cut it back that far some day..... probably some day far.

Nice.

Sorce

 

[bonsai-novice]

I know what you mean, It annoys me a bit the first bit is like a pencil and then it just stops and splits off into two branches. I wasn't brave enough to cut it all off though. I am not 100% sure what to do though as it looks too different in each section.

 

[bonsai-novice]

My chestnut tree seems to have had an explosion of growth this year. As it it may be hard to turn into a bonsai proper, I was thinking of just training it into a smallish tree.

Does anyone know if the weird bulbous base is a good thing as I think it is a bit ugly if I'm honest. And can anyone see anything that jumps out at them that needs removing?

 

[bonsai-novice]

Now the leaves have fallen off, I thought I'd attach some pictures of the branches.


Does anyone have any ideas what I can do with the big one in a pot. It's just a mess of branches and not a clue how to even start making it look a little more tree-y. I am quite impressed how small the leaves were this year. After the heatwave in the UK, it lost all its leaves and put out new ones that were probably no longer than an inch or two. Which i think isn't bad considering how big chestnut leaves normal can get

Any help would be amazing

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I think you can go ahead and prune a profile in them. So removing branches starting from the bottom and working your way upwards.
And this can mean that you're cutting the trunk to make a new trunk out of a branch moving to the side.
@BobbyLane and @MACH5 are very good at deciduous, they can help your trees move forward better than I can.

 

[BobbyLane]

Id probably put those in the ground to bulk up for a few years, theyre very young plants.

 

[bonsai-novice]

Id probably put those in the ground to bulk up for a few years, theyre very young plants.

I would if I could. I've tried so many times but each time I am overruled