Here comes the pain

cbroad

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They cannot take a frost

Crap, I was hoping for better news... I was hoping since they're so cold hardy the leaves might be able to take some freezes.

I don't remember what they did last year, but they were protected, this year I didn't mulch anything in. I have over 70 plants in nursery pots so I was trying to cull the herd a little but I have a multi trunked amur air layer I did last year so I don't want to lose that ?
 

rockm

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They cannot take a frost. If you don't protect them from the frost the leaves will die. The tree will probably be fine, but it will be set back a little.
Crap, I was hoping for better news... I was hoping since they're so cold hardy the leaves might be able to take some freezes.

I don't remember what they did last year, but they were protected, this year I didn't mulch anything in. I have over 70 plants in nursery pots so I was trying to cull the herd a little but I have a multi trunked amur air layer I did last year so I don't want to lose that ?
It's not the leaves that you have to worry about. It is the roots. Once a deciduous tree opens leaf buds, it loses 99 percent of its ability to withstand freezes. The roots freeze after leaf break and the tree will die or have significant, possibly catastrophic dieback. Frost will only damage leaves, which will have black spots, mushy stuff and holes. If the damage isn't extensive, you can trim those off and the tree will most likely replace them.

However, what we will be up against here in Va. and Northwards is NOT FROST for the most part. The forecast calls for repeated HARD FREEZES with temps near 25 at night. Unprotected leafed out trees face a death sentence in those conditions.
 

Nybonsai12

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Also of note is different websites predict different forecasts. Where one website says you will have hard freezes, another will say it will stay above freezing. I'm in the camp that you can't trust any weather forecast beyond a day or two. So be mindful and pay close attention daily, protect trees as necessary if you have completed any work.
 

rockm

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Also of note is different websites predict different forecasts. Where one website says you will have hard freezes, another will say it will stay above freezing. I'm in the camp that you can't trust any weather forecast beyond a day or two. So be mindful and pay close attention daily, protect trees as necessary if you have completed any work.
Prepare for the worst. Hope for the best.
 

cbroad

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The roots freeze after leaf break and the tree will die or have significant, possibly catastrophic dieback.

Yeah... After I separated the layer last summer 2 of the 3 trunks dropped their leaves and I wasn't sure if they'd push out again but they definitely are now so I really want to protect it. Do you think mulching the pot in is sufficient or should I be shuffling it indoors and outdoors?
 

rockm

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Yeah... After I separated the layer last summer 2 of the 3 trunks dropped their leaves and I wasn't sure if they'd push out again but they definitely are now so I really want to protect it. Do you think mulching the pot in is sufficient or should I be shuffling it indoors and outdoors?
Depends on how cold it gets and how deep your mulch is and if the tree has leafed out...
 

cbroad

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@rockm
It's in a 1 gallon, so would probably only be 6 inches deep. Oh yeah, they'll be leafed out!

All of my plants are in a north-ish facing part of the yard that only gets early morning partial sun, definitely the coldest part of the yard but I guess wasn't enough to keep them dormant. Everything else is still sleeping luckily...
 

rockm

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Given that the country is currently split into a "hot" half in the east and a "cold" half in the west and that weather moves wests to east, it's a fair bet winter in the east is far from over. March is treacherous for bonsai. It is cold and snowy here in Va. in March.

March IS NOT SPRING, at least not the first two weeks and we've still got a week BEFORE we get to March. For crying out loud, just because it's freakishly warm right now DOES NOT mean it's not going to get cold again...
 

rockm

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@rockm
It's in a 1 gallon, so would probably only be 6 inches deep. Oh yeah, they'll be leafed out!

All of my plants are in a north-ish facing part of the yard that only gets early morning partial sun, definitely the coldest part of the yard but I guess wasn't enough to keep them dormant. Everything else is still sleeping luckily...
I'd be prepared to bring them in if forecast is for below 30 or so.
 

Vin

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It's not the leaves that you have to worry about. It is the roots. Once a deciduous tree opens leaf buds, it loses 99 percent of its ability to withstand freezes. The roots freeze after leaf break and the tree will die or have significant, possibly catastrophic dieback. Frost will only damage leaves, which will have black spots, mushy stuff and holes. If the damage isn't extensive, you can trim those off and the tree will most likely replace them.

However, what we will be up against here in Va. and Northwards is NOT FROST for the most part. The forecast calls for repeated HARD FREEZES with temps near 25 at night. Unprotected leafed out trees face a death sentence in those conditions.
I agree completely. I was just stating the leaves wouldn't survive a frost. But the roots freezing is a different story as you stated.
 

justBonsai

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Getting near freezing and some frost in Southern California. Highly unusual for this time of year and colder than the weather in December.
 

Velodog2

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Returning to cold in March is consistent with the predictions I’ve seen and is completely plausible. But as we’ve been saying we have ten days of warm between now and then, buds that are moving, and as far as I know no effective way to stop them. One way or another I will be faced with having to protect trees that have leafed out to a greater or lesser extent when the cold returns.
 
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I have a couple Acer palmatums that the buds are starting to enlarge and will probably be moving by the end of the week if they are not already. I was debating repotting them this spring. I do have an unheated shed I could stash them in when the freezes come around again. What do you think? Repot when the buds begin to open.. wire them in steady and shuffle in and out of the shed?

Just outside DC here.

My elms look to be waiting it out so far...
 

chansen

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Long-term, 15 day forecast for my area has temps in the low 20s next week. We will get to 80 or over today and tomorrow. EVERYTHING is going to move quickly. I can only pray buds don't open this week...

I have the same problem, just lower temps. We hit 60 not too long ago, and we're dancing around single digit lows this week. Thankfully on the warmer days it still gets down into the 30s at night, so the trees stay asleep.

I have a greenhouse and the heaters kick on to keep it around 38 at coldest. It's a lot harder to keep the thing cool, than warm. The greenhouse is insulated on the inside, covered in shade cloth, only the gable ends face south and it gets some shade from my house... still hard to keep cool on those warm days.
 
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