Hinoki Cypress 1 Progression

[coh]

Here are a couple of pics of a hinoki cypress I'm working on. This will be a long term project that will likely require extensive grafting but has potential I think. We'll keep a record of its progression here.

Back story: purchased this at the 2018 National Show. @MACH5 purchased its cousin but I don't think his survived. Anyway, I wanted a larger trunked hinoki to work with and this one had that, plus a wide base, and at the time it had a fairly good amount of internal branching/growth (I don't seem to have any photos of it at this stage). Anyone who has worked with hinoki knows how important that is, as they are very reluctant to back bud on bare/older branches and trunk.

Well, I don't know if I did something wrong or if it was going to happen anyway, but that first fall almost all of the internal growth yellowed and dropped. I was quite devastated. The plant looked terrible, had little foliage left...I didn't even know if it would survive.

I let it grow basically untouched in 2019 and it put on a lot of foliage, but all at the ends of long branches (see photo below). I wired out the branches horizontally last year to allow as much light as possible into the interior but still haven't gotten any budding. This spring I repotted and got into bonsai soil (it was basically in pumice). It has responded with strong growth and the foliage masses suggest there is potential to make an interesting tree. However, I will probably have to do a fair bit of grafting to bring growth in closer to the trunk. I put a couple of "test" grafts on it a month or so ago. This was my first try at scion grafting and I don't know if they're going to take (probably not) but at least I learned some things about the process, and will be better prepared for next spring.


Photo 1: Current image after some thinning/cut-back plus a little digital editing. Obviously apex area is too dense etc but I am leaving plenty of growth for grafting.





Photo 2: Image from a week ago before any work was done. Obviously very full and healthy.





Photo 3: Example of leggy branches that will almost certainly require grafting.

 

[Hartinez]

Here are a couple of pics of a hinoki cypress I'm working on. This will be a long term project that will likely require extensive grafting but has potential I think. We'll keep a record of its progression here.

Back story: purchased this at the 2018 National Show. @MACH5 purchased its cousin but I don't think his survived. Anyway, I wanted a larger trunked hinoki to work with and this one had that, plus a wide base, and at the time it had a fairly good amount of internal branching/growth (I don't seem to have any photos of it at this stage). Anyone who has worked with hinoki knows how important that is, as they are very reluctant to back bud on bare/older branches and trunk.

Well, I don't know if I did something wrong or if it was going to happen anyway, but that first fall almost all of the internal growth yellowed and dropped. I was quite devastated. The plant looked terrible, had little foliage left...I didn't even know if it would survive.

I let it grow basically untouched in 2019 and it put on a lot of foliage, but all at the ends of long branches (see photo below). I wired out the branches horizontally last year to allow as much light as possible into the interior but still haven't gotten any budding. This spring I repotted and got into bonsai soil (it was basically in pumice). It has responded with strong growth and the foliage masses suggest there is potential to make an interesting tree. However, I will probably have to do a fair bit of grafting to bring growth in closer to the trunk. I put a couple of "test" grafts on it a month or so ago. This was my first try at scion grafting and I don't know if they're going to take (probably not) but at least I learned some things about the process, and will be better prepared for next spring.


Photo 1: Current image after some thinning/cut-back plus a little digital editing. Obviously apex area is too dense etc but I am leaving plenty of growth for grafting.

View attachment 387262



Photo 2: Image from a week ago before any work was done. Obviously very full and healthy.

View attachment 387263



Photo 3: Example of leggy branches that will almost certainly require grafting.

View attachment 387264

That’s unfortunate. Though I will say, the legginess is def not evident from the profile pics of the tree. It looks dense and full and happy.

 

[penumbra]

That’s unfortunate. Though I will say, the legginess is def not evident from the profile pics of the tree. It looks dense and full and happy.

That is exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Shogun610]

Fantastic tree, nice a full.
How do you water it? I’m in no means an expert with Hinokis but on my crappy pre bonsai Hinoki I’m learning with, I saw some browning foliage , then I misted it for a week every day sometimes twice, and the foliage bounced back. I think it has to do w the foliage type , kinda like Juniper, and how the foliage absorbs dew in the dry environment they originally grow in.

 

[coh]

That’s unfortunate. Though I will say, the legginess is def not evident from the profile pics of the tree. It looks dense and full and happy.

That is exactly what I was thinking.

Yes, perspective can play tricks on the eye! The branches that are leggiest are the ones in the middle section of the plant, which are basically at camera level. You don't really see the legginess unless you look from above (or below). In contrast, the branching lower on the trunk and in the apex is much more compact so even when viewed from this angle, those look OK. I won't have to graft those areas as long as I pay attention and keep the growth compact.

 

[coh]

Fantastic tree, nice a full.
How do you water it? I’m in no means an expert with Hinokis but on my crappy pre bonsai Hinoki I’m learning with, I saw some browning foliage , then I misted it for a week every day sometimes twice, and the foliage bounced back. I think it has to do w the foliage type , kinda like Juniper, and how the foliage absorbs dew in the dry environment they originally grow in.

I've always heard they "like" water but in my experience (I have another smaller one also), they aren't much different than other trees. When it's warm and dry out and they are growing actively they generally get watered every day, sometimes twice a day. This of course assumes a well draining bonsai soil type mix and I do check to make sure they aren't still wet from the last watering (but I don't let them get too dry either). I do spray the foliage on a regular basis especially when it's hot.

Did you see browning at the ends of the branches or in the interior growth? What time of year? I think I did under-water my other one a couple of years ago and lost some branch tips but can't remember if they turned brown or yellow.

 

[Shogun610]

It was entire pad, but mostly on the tips

 

[coh]

It was entire pad, but mostly on the tips

Tough to say what may have caused it without seeing it. You don't happen to have a pic of the browning, do you?

 

[Shogun610]

Tough to say what may have caused it without seeing it. You don't happen to have a pic of the browning, do you?

Yeah no I do not have a pic

 

[QuantumSparky]

Since Hinoki's (from what I've heard) don't backbud much at all on old wood, is it even worth buying nursery stock and trying to work around those super long leggy branches? My attempt ended up really wide and out of proportion because the foliage didn't start until super far out on the branches, and I don't know of any way to 'pull' those whorls closer to the tree metaphorically speaking

 

[coh]

Since Hinoki's (from what I've heard) don't backbud much at all on old wood, is it even worth buying nursery stock and trying to work around those super long leggy branches? My attempt ended up really wide and out of proportion because the foliage didn't start until super far out on the branches, and I don't know of any way to 'pull' those whorls closer to the tree metaphorically speaking

You can only "snake" those leggy branches around so much before it starts looking contrived. So, if the trunk and roots are good enough, the way to deal with the legginess is grafting. In this case, the tree had plentiful interior growth (one of the main reasons I got it) but most of it dropped off that first fall for whatever reason.

I've heard a number of people say grafting hinoki is pretty easy but I've never done scion grafting before. I put a couple on this tree a few weeks ago to get some experience with the process and prepare for next year (big lesson learned - the grafting knife needs to be really sharp). We'll see how it goes. If it doesn't work I can always plant it in the garden - it really didn't cost all that much considering its size.

 

[Shogun610]

Lol it’s just some crap nursery stock, some then I bent the branches more inward but still a crap tree lol

Tough to say what may have caused it without seeing it. You don't happen to have a pic of the browning, do you?

 

[coh]

Lol it’s just some crap nursery stock, some then I bent the branches more inward but still a crap tree lol

So one thing you could do would be to wire those branches way down at a sharp angle, almost parallel to the trunk. Then the foliage masses would be brought in closer and it could give the appearance of an older tree. I've tried to photoshop (very crudely) what I'm talking about. You'd wind up with a sparse tree with severely downward-angled branches with small foliage pads. The exact structure would depend on where the branches are, how long/thick they are, etc. Apex would be thinned out a lot. Secondary left trunk would get the same treatment (or maybe could be eliminated). Maybe jin the top of the tall trunk.



Here you can see which branches I've "moved":

 

[Paradox]

@coh please let us know how grafting works out for you with this tree if you decide to try it

 

[coh]

@coh please let us know how grafting works out for you with this tree if you decide to try it

Definitely. I put 2 on the tree on July 9, not really expecting success (because of both inexperience and time of year) but more to get some practice with the technique. Both are still green, so maybe I'll get lucky. The last couple of weeks have been notably cooler/cloudier/wetter than earlier in the summer, which helps. I also added a foil sun shield over the more exposed graft to protect from direct sun.

Was reading an article in the latest Bonsai Focus about grafting, it claimed many in Japan do grafting during the summer and even fall because they are too busy in the spring.

 

[Hartinez]

Definitely. I put 2 on the tree on July 9, not really expecting success (because of both inexperience and time of year) but more to get some practice with the technique. Both are still green, so maybe I'll get lucky. The last couple of weeks have been notably cooler/cloudier/wetter than earlier in the summer, which helps. I also added a foil sun shield over the more exposed graft to protect from direct sun.

Was reading an article in the latest Bonsai Focus about grafting, it claimed many in Japan do grafting during the summer and even fall because they are too busy in the spring.

That’s interesting about timing. Read on an another article on Hinoki is that the best time to style is fall. Always seems so counter productive to do that type of work in fall.

 

[Hartinez]

Since Hinoki's (from what I've heard) don't backbud much at all on old wood, is it even worth buying nursery stock and trying to work around those super long leggy branches? My attempt ended up really wide and out of proportion because the foliage didn't start until super far out on the branches, and I don't know of any way to 'pull' those whorls closer to the tree metaphorically speaking

I think nursery Hinoki can be managed pretty well if styled correctly. If the pads are layered proper, leggy branches can work. I know this image is from a tree Bjorn just did, and his skills are next level, but you can see in the pic how long some of the branches are before the pads even start. It works though because they all leave the trunk at about the same angle and are laid out very nicely with one another. These trees are both from nursery stock.

 

[Shogun610]

So one thing you could do would be to wire those branches way down at a sharp angle, almost parallel to the trunk. Then the foliage masses would be brought in closer and it could give the appearance of an older tree. I've tried to photoshop (very crudely) what I'm talking about. You'd wind up with a sparse tree with severely downward-angled branches with small foliage pads. The exact structure would depend on where the branches are, how long/thick they are, etc. Apex would be thinned out a lot. Secondary left trunk would get the same treatment (or maybe could be eliminated). Maybe jin the top of the tall trunk.

View attachment 387793

Here you can see which branches I've "moved":

View attachment 387794

Yeah it’s a shame that they don’t back bud. But do they back bud of push out growth on a pad ?

 

[Shogun610]

I think nursery Hinoki can be managed pretty well if styled correctly. If the pads are layered proper, leggy branches can work. I know this image is from a tree Bjorn just did, and his skills are next level, but you can see in the pic how long some of the branches are before the pads even start. It works though because they all leave the trunk at about the same angle and are laid out very nicely with one another. These trees are both from nursery stock.View attachment 387797View attachment 387798

I was in direct contact with his grower , and my teacher knows him well. I’m supposed to get a hinoki and a field grown spruce from him sometime soon

 

[BobbyLane]

I was in direct contact with his grower , and my teacher knows him well. I’m supposed to get a hinoki and a field grown spruce from him sometime soon

wait, you have a teacher? i wouldnt have guessed.

Nice Hinoki, Coh.