Hinoki style

BrightsideB

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This Hinoki was not doing to well when I got it this last April. I was happy though because a year before the nursery wanted to charge me full price so I waited until the next year went back and it was in the shade dying so I told them I’d be happy to take it off their hands for $20 and they sold it to me. So I did a rather heavy root prune and started to fertilize and it grew a lot of healthy foliage this last season. I was curious if anyone had any advice on style? And it has a nice nebari but lengthy branches with pads only at the ends. I was curious if anyone had recommendations on how to get this tree under control.
 

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Clicio

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Hummm...
Unfortunately Hinokis are known for not growing sprouts on old wood, which means once the branches are leggy, they will stay leggy. Not good news, but depending upon what style you are leading the tree, you still can make a bonsai out of it.
 

HorseloverFat

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Clicio is absolutely correct.

And...

There IS some “magic” in there...

I’d angle/twist the presentation of the main trunk and utilize branches on one side in a design that required MUCH manipulation, bending down to “fill space” and encompass the design as a whole... I’d go.. “that route” .. y’know.. the NONSENSICAL-sounding one...

I’m probably not explaining it well... I wish I was good at virtually-altered images.

🤓
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I’d angle/twist the presentation of the main trunk and utilize branches on one side in a design that required MUCH manipulation, bending down to “fill space” and encompass the design as a whole... I’d go.. “that route” .. y’know.. the NONSENSICAL-sounding one...
How about.. Hear me out.. Grafting?

20 USD is a good price for a tree like this, and grafting some higher branches down low would probably work. I don't know how well hinokis take grafting, but a 20 dollar DIY grafting course is a fair price!
And seriously, it's easier than one would expect. It's the timing that matters most.
 

BrightsideB

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Clicio is absolutely correct.

And...

There IS some “magic” in there...

I’d angle/twist the presentation of the main trunk and utilize branches on one side in a design that required MUCH manipulation, bending down to “fill space” and encompass the design as a whole... I’d go.. “that route” .. y’know.. the NONSENSICAL-sounding one...

I’m probably not explaining it well... I wish I was good at virtually-altered images.

🤓
I like the concept. I have made steel trees and such in my field as a blacksmith and welder. And the way you are explaining that is kind of the route I’d take as a metal artist. The branches are there and lengthy ready to be bent and formed. I really like that concept. May not be a traditional looking bonsai but when you said the magic existing I immediately thought how I would create sculpture. Thanks for the input! And as @Clicio said it would be a gamble to try and get backbudding to initiate and work with. I’ve had success with a spruce cutting back in early spring and getting new buds but haven’t had experience with hinoki.
 

BrightsideB

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How about.. Hear me out.. Grafting?

20 USD is a good price for a tree like this, and grafting some higher branches down low would probably work. I don't know how well hinokis take grafting, but a 20 dollar DIY grafting course is a fair price!
And seriously, it's easier than one would expect. It's the timing that matters most.
I like that idea and was lucky to get it so cheap. I’m definitely going to entertain that idea. I’ve been wanting to learn grafting. Actually growing pine and jm stock for future attempts and practice.
 

Clicio

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I ve had success with a spruce cutting back in early spring and getting new buds but haven’t had experience with hinoki.
But that is the problem. While many conifers will backbud after a hard cut done at the right time, it doesn't work this way with Hinokis.
 

BrightsideB

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But that is the problem. While many conifers will backbud after a hard cut done at the right time, it doesn't work this way with Hinokis.
That’s interesting. I didn’t know that and didn’t really like the idea of cutting back hard in spring and hoping for back buds. I like the idea of wiring the heck out of it. Just doing a cool form. Maybe it won’t look like a natural hinoki but it’ll look cool in time.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I like that idea and was lucky to get it so cheap. I’m definitely going to entertain that idea. I’ve been wanting to learn grafting. Actually growing pine and jm stock for future attempts and practice.
I gave myself a DIY grafting course on a 30 euro juniper, and it was totally worth it. At first I had a 80-90% strike rate. The next year I hit zero, because my timing was off by a month.
There are a bunch of guys on youtube showing halves of what they do, if you combine a couple videos of "scion grafting bonsai" and you'll get a clear picture.

Do get yourself some parafilm before you start though! It's the hardest part of grafting to get cheap parafilm.
 

BrightsideB

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I gave myself a DIY grafting course on a 30 euro juniper, and it was totally worth it. At first I had a 80-90% strike rate. The next year I hit zero, because my timing was off by a month.
There are a bunch of guys on youtube showing halves of what they do, if you combine a couple videos of "scion grafting bonsai" and you'll get a clear picture.

Do get yourself some parafilm before you start though! It's the hardest part of grafting to get cheap parafilm.
There is a guy who grafts jm near me. I have bought about 5 trees from him for the yard. He said he’d let me learn from him as long as I pay for the materials and stock. I will probably do it next year since there is only onetime a year you can do it. But I am more interested in learning to graft conifers. I’ve watched several video’s on YouTube and as well as other sites. It seems like people have slightly different ways of doing it. It’s definitely something I want to learn. I have been growing some red pine and red cedar from seeds for several years to practice on. Junipers seem like a fun genus to do though.
 
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Leo in N E Illinois

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Learning to graft on Hinoki will translate to grafting pines and other species. Some differences in timing between different species.

Actually there usually are more than one season where grafting can be successful. I took a grafting class in August, in Wisconsin, because that was a good time to do grafting according to the teacher, a commercial nursery propagator, Mike Yannie. Some of you might know him. He grafts hornbeams, apples, and even pines in August. The late winter - early spring, window of time is not the only ideal time. According to Yannie, they first tried August because they simply did not have time around the nursery to do all the grafting they wanted to do in late winter & early spring. Sap is not flowing as rapidly as in spring, so with the slower growth in August, it is not a bad time to do grafting. (or at least August in Wisconsin).
 

BrightsideB

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Learning to graft on Hinoki will translate to grafting pines and other species. Some differences in timing between different species.

Actually there usually are more than one season where grafting can be successful. I took a grafting class in August, in Wisconsin, because that was a good time to do grafting according to the teacher, a commercial nursery propagator, Mike Yannie. Some of you might know him. He grafts hornbeams, apples, and even pines in August. The late winter - early spring, window of time is not the only ideal time. According to Yannie, they first tried August because they simply did not have time around the nursery to do all the grafting they wanted to do in late winter & early spring. Sap is not flowing as rapidly as in spring, so with the slower growth in August, it is not a bad time to do grafting. (or at least August in Wisconsin).
That makes sense to do it when the sap is not flowing as much. Do you know any good resources online that teach it? I am going to learn jm’s from a guy that grafts them for a living near me. But I want to really learn conifers. I’ve seen how some people grow fast growing species for years then graft more compact growing species on to them once they’ve aged. That’s a pretty cool and lucrative technique to develop.
 

Forsoothe!

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The one thing you can do with long branches that you can't do with other trees is make a windswept. As long as everything says student body right, it works . You need to make a decision which direction can utilize the most branches so the exact "front' may not be what you think now, but worth looking into.
 

63pmp

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Whatever you choose, you need to start bring branches down or thinning foliage to let light into the remaining inner branches to keep them viable. Octopus style is popular with hinoki.
 

BrightsideB

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The one thing you can do with long branches that you can't do with other trees is make a windswept. As long as everything says student body right, it works . You need to make a decision which direction can utilize the most branches so the exact "front' may not be what you think now, but worth looking into.
That’s interesting. I can see that making a good windswept. I have to look at it and see how that would work with this tree.
 

BrightsideB

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Search You Tube for pine grafting techniques by Brent Walston of Evergreen Gardenworks. He has a short video or two out there.

Also read the articles section of his website.


Thanks! I’ll check it out. Definitely want to get into it. Looking to get some material to work with rather than just a few trees to practice with.
 

leatherback

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it would be a gamble to try and get backbudding to initiate
No gamble at all. You will not get backbudding on the places where you want is, and you will get rarely any at all. :)
In this case, I think the "wait for the tree to go downhill" was not a great gamble tbh.
 
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