Hoping for approaches to insulating/'jacketing' containers (tonight's going to be real cold!!)

SU2

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We're forecast to get down to the high-30's tonight and I'm unable to get my specimen inside (my patio is currently over-loaded with another project and there's just no way I can get them inside tonight), aside from grouping my trees together on the most wind-shielded benches (13mph winds forecast), and making sure everything's got a thick layer of mulch, I was thinking that there's gotta be some relatively simple way of 'wrapping' the containers (if I had rolls of burlap or something that'd be ideal, just cut-to-shape and affix onto containers/pots as 'jackets'), I know it's the roots that are most-vulnerable to the cold and I suspect that my wooden containers with 2" thick walls are OK but I've got a lot of thin plastic containers as well - anyone have suggestions/tips for quick insulation approaches? I've got ~15-30' of incandescent xmas lights (the generic white bulbs-on-a-string you'd use on gutters), have considered wrapping containers with those but don't think they'd do very much w/o being very dense on the containers, a wrap or two probably won't do a whole lot :/

FWIW, almost every 'tree' in my collection is a bougainvillea (~95%), then a handful of crapes & hibiscus make up most of the remainder of my ~50 trees - so a very tropical collection lol! Am able & ready to make an 8' cube greenhouse if I start losing trees but, after our first cold-snap, where they responded poorly, they seemed to adapt - the next cold-snap was worse and the trees hardly showed any distress! Today's the coldest day in weeks and they all look fine at the moment thankfully!

Happy new year guys, hope everyone has a great '18!!!
 

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I have many boughies and ficus that have been going through upper 30's for the past week with no problems. Have not had your wind however. I even leave them on benches. I covered them one night just to make sure I had everything ready to go in case temps really dipped. Might think about watering them for the night.
 
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For the future, I would recommend having a heat mat available, nothing I can think of for tonight other than watering them well before it hits, and setting heat sink water containers near your plants.
 
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Tieball

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I’ve had trees that I apply a mist to in the evening hours....mostly to protect from spring frosts.....hoping the mist would freeze. The ice insulates very well....and simply melts away as the temperature rises.
 
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milehigh_7

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High 30s should not be a problem any of them.

This is exactly correct. Crapes are fine into the 20's. Some bougs will get a touch of leaf loss around 28F or so but no damage. Other bougs won't miss a beat. Now my willow ficus has not appreciated the 28F nights very much but all it did was defoliate. Green mound ficus lost some leaves at 28F but that was the worst of it...
 
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rockm

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Anything above 32 isn't going to be a problem. I would however worry about radiational cooling on the tops of the trees out in the open. You can get frost on leaves in temps up to 40 or so in spots. That's because of the way heat dissipates in cold temperatures. That can cause minor frost damage on some plants. That threat can be reduced a bit by spraying everything down with water (leaves, branches etc) at dusk and just before dawn--yeah that means getting out of bed just like a farmer and spraying your plants. Water provides insulation from lighter frost. It also prevents severe damage to roots in container soil exposed to freezing temperature s (but you don' have to worry about that in high 30s).
 
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SU2

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Well I'm sad to say that I went outside this morning and, upon removing trash bags I had on a couple plants and assessing everything, have found most of them showing signs of distress with some being hit pretty hard (like 20+ wilted growing-tips - surely the growth was too-supple for this season, my fault for having pruned too-late in the season)

I've grouped things more / setup more wind-blocks, am going over tarping setups for tonight - but what of this damage? Should I be cutting-off just the bad leaves? The shoots, down to the lowest-affected leaf? I can't imagine leaving anything like what's pictured will be smart, seems it'd become a rot/bug nuisance very quickly...would greatly appreciate advice on precisely what to cut-off when approaching these damaged areas (if anything!)

19700408_134844.jpg
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Throw a trashcan upside down over them?
CW
After much re-arranging I got most of my favorite specimen into my patio (all did fine except a recently-collected royal poinciana, it's put out 1 flush of growth since collection and it looks like the fresh growth is dying), and instead of trashcans used trashbags on a few of the larger ones that are a major PITA to move (>50lbs)....the pictures above are from one of the bagged ones :/ I had another similarly-sized large one that was bagged and didn't get nearly as much damage, has to just be different cultivars or something because they were on the same bench and are almost identical ages (they're the first two large bougies I'd ever collected)

High 30s should not be a problem any of them.
It was (still is) quite windy as well, and many of my specimen are not well-established plants, my most-established plants were collected/transplanted just this past spring (and many were carved up pretty thoroughly!), and many are hardwood-cuttings - I've easily got 20 bougie hardwoods that were doing fine but just don't have established root systems (they've got good roots, I grew them out in a raised-bed and potted the best, bare-rooting them in the process, and that was months ago so I know they've got 'ok' roots but nothing remotely approaching 'established' - and it's the roots that are supposed to take the worst beating from the cold (it's hard to tell, when looking at the damages from last night, how much was due to coldness on the leaves versus inefficient root/'antifreeze' engagement..)

View attachment 172810
I have many boughies and ficus that have been going through upper 30's for the past week with no problems. Have not had your wind however. I even leave them on benches. I covered them one night just to make sure I had everything ready to go in case temps really dipped. Might think about watering them for the night.
Do yours take a harder hit during the first cold periods of the season? Mine wilted during the first temp drop, but they were fine during the 2nd (colder) drop...I really didn't expect the damages I found this morning TBH, am really glad I took the time to get my favorite specimen into the patio last night :/

Your setup's beautiful btw, saved it in my 'gardens&benches' pictures folder that I browse-through every time I go to build/re-arrange my garden! I've moved two of my mobile benches alongside an in-ground 8' bench, so (3) benches parallel to each other, close-enough that you cannot walk-through them, everything squished-together on them - have setup larger landscape plants to act as buffers (some large 'purple porterweeds' I had growing in large ceramic containers, they were setup as the primary/first-line buffers last night and jesus did they get hit hard, their containers were bone-dry this morning and they all look like they're going to die, it's not just their tips they're wilted 100%...)

If I were really concerned about the low temperatures, I'd push them all together then throw a tarp over them for the night...
I've got them all together now, 3 benches side-by-side, all the plants squished-together - I like the idea of putting a tarp over them but the wind is insane, I can't think of any way to properly tarp that wouldn't essentially be building a mini-greenhouse (like, right now my best thought is to put (4) 4x4"s in the ground, in a square around the 3 benches, and tarp that - I don't think it's too useful to have the tarping just touching/sitting-on the trees, the pics I just posted were from a specimen that was bagged and it seemed the parts that were touching the bag got it the worst - to have a tarp that won't blow away, and isn't pushing-down on the trees, isn't something I know how to do properly, the 4x4"s and a trip to home depot for tarping is all I can conceive for this and if I do that I may as well just use another (4) 4x4"s to frame the top and have an 8' cube greenhouse..really want to avoid having to do that if possible!!)

I’ve had trees that I apply a mist to in the evening hours....mostly to protect from spring frosts.....hoping the mist would freeze. The ice insulates very well....and simply melts away as the temperature rises.
Thanks for posting, had wondered about this- do you think that logic applies to tropicals? Like, for plants that can tolerate freezing temperatures, ice can be a shield - but for plants like mine, ice kills...so when it's getting late tonight and I'm making sure moisture levels are dialed-in, I'm truly unsure whether it's better to get the crowns wet or not, I can see the wetness just conducting more cold (like how you'd feel colder when going out while perspiring)

This is exactly correct. Crapes are fine into the 20's. Some bougs will get a touch of leaf loss around 28F or so but no damage. Other bougs won't miss a beat. Now my willow ficus has not appreciated the 28F nights very much but all it did was defoliate. Green mound ficus lost some leaves at 28F but that was the worst of it...
The two larger crapes look pretty good thankfully, the two smallest ones (in ~8oz styrofoam cups and pure perlite) were certainly not happy, I'd grouped them w/ a bunch of other small containers but it wasn't enough (have since setup a much tighter display, w/ better wind-buffers)

I think 38 was the lowest it got last night/this morning but that leaf-loss I pictured above isn't an anomaly I probably have 30-40 shoots with bad tips like that :/ (all bougies)

Anything above 32 isn't going to be a problem. I would however worry about radiational cooling on the tops of the trees out in the open. You can get frost on leaves in temps up to 40 or so in spots. That's because of the way heat dissipates in cold temperatures. That can cause minor frost damage on some plants. That threat can be reduced a bit by spraying everything down with water (leaves, branches etc) at dusk and just before dawn--yeah that means getting out of bed just like a farmer and spraying your plants. Water provides insulation from lighter frost. It also prevents severe damage to roots in container soil exposed to freezing temperature s (but you don' have to worry about that in high 30s).

Thanks a ton for replying, was very unsure about the watering (whether being a bit wetter helps or hurts when a cold period is coming), I understand that water's good insulation (even as ice) for trees that can handle that, but for my tropical bougies I didn't know - I totally don't mind spraying them down at dusk&dawn, just want to be certain you're saying that's good-practice even for tropicals/bougies?

Am intrigued by this 'radiational cooling' effect you mention, am going to google it - crazy that you can have freezing at >32 though, am ignorant on how the cold moves though except that it sinks and that you don't leave things directly on the ground! Would love to hear your recommendation for what, if anything, I should do with the damaged/dead leaves pictured above?

(on a tangential note, I had 2 bougies where, after removing their bags, I found more leaves with leaf-miners than ever, like double what I'd call a 'bad day' in the case of these miners (I pull at least a couple leaves every day w/ the little buggers but had a ton to pull this morning!))
 

rockm

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Well I'm sad to say that I went outside this morning and, upon removing trash bags I had on a couple plants and assessing everything, have found most of them showing signs of distress with some being hit pretty hard (like 20+ wilted growing-tips - surely the growth was too-supple for this season, my fault for having pruned too-late in the season)

I've grouped things more / setup more wind-blocks, am going over tarping setups for tonight - but what of this damage? Should I be cutting-off just the bad leaves? The shoots, down to the lowest-affected leaf? I can't imagine leaving anything like what's pictured will be smart, seems it'd become a rot/bug nuisance very quickly...would greatly appreciate advice on precisely what to cut-off when approaching these damaged areas (if anything!)

View attachment 172876
View attachment 172874
View attachment 172875


After much re-arranging I got most of my favorite specimen into my patio (all did fine except a recently-collected royal poinciana, it's put out 1 flush of growth since collection and it looks like the fresh growth is dying), and instead of trashcans used trashbags on a few of the larger ones that are a major PITA to move (>50lbs)....the pictures above are from one of the bagged ones :/ I had another similarly-sized large one that was bagged and didn't get nearly as much damage, has to just be different cultivars or something because they were on the same bench and are almost identical ages (they're the first two large bougies I'd ever collected)


It was (still is) quite windy as well, and many of my specimen are not well-established plants, my most-established plants were collected/transplanted just this past spring (and many were carved up pretty thoroughly!), and many are hardwood-cuttings - I've easily got 20 bougie hardwoods that were doing fine but just don't have established root systems (they've got good roots, I grew them out in a raised-bed and potted the best, bare-rooting them in the process, and that was months ago so I know they've got 'ok' roots but nothing remotely approaching 'established' - and it's the roots that are supposed to take the worst beating from the cold (it's hard to tell, when looking at the damages from last night, how much was due to coldness on the leaves versus inefficient root/'antifreeze' engagement..)


Do yours take a harder hit during the first cold periods of the season? Mine wilted during the first temp drop, but they were fine during the 2nd (colder) drop...I really didn't expect the damages I found this morning TBH, am really glad I took the time to get my favorite specimen into the patio last night :/

Your setup's beautiful btw, saved it in my 'gardens&benches' pictures folder that I browse-through every time I go to build/re-arrange my garden! I've moved two of my mobile benches alongside an in-ground 8' bench, so (3) benches parallel to each other, close-enough that you cannot walk-through them, everything squished-together on them - have setup larger landscape plants to act as buffers (some large 'purple porterweeds' I had growing in large ceramic containers, they were setup as the primary/first-line buffers last night and jesus did they get hit hard, their containers were bone-dry this morning and they all look like they're going to die, it's not just their tips they're wilted 100%...)


I've got them all together now, 3 benches side-by-side, all the plants squished-together - I like the idea of putting a tarp over them but the wind is insane, I can't think of any way to properly tarp that wouldn't essentially be building a mini-greenhouse (like, right now my best thought is to put (4) 4x4"s in the ground, in a square around the 3 benches, and tarp that - I don't think it's too useful to have the tarping just touching/sitting-on the trees, the pics I just posted were from a specimen that was bagged and it seemed the parts that were touching the bag got it the worst - to have a tarp that won't blow away, and isn't pushing-down on the trees, isn't something I know how to do properly, the 4x4"s and a trip to home depot for tarping is all I can conceive for this and if I do that I may as well just use another (4) 4x4"s to frame the top and have an 8' cube greenhouse..really want to avoid having to do that if possible!!)


Thanks for posting, had wondered about this- do you think that logic applies to tropicals? Like, for plants that can tolerate freezing temperatures, ice can be a shield - but for plants like mine, ice kills...so when it's getting late tonight and I'm making sure moisture levels are dialed-in, I'm truly unsure whether it's better to get the crowns wet or not, I can see the wetness just conducting more cold (like how you'd feel colder when going out while perspiring)


The two larger crapes look pretty good thankfully, the two smallest ones (in ~8oz styrofoam cups and pure perlite) were certainly not happy, I'd grouped them w/ a bunch of other small containers but it wasn't enough (have since setup a much tighter display, w/ better wind-buffers)

I think 38 was the lowest it got last night/this morning but that leaf-loss I pictured above isn't an anomaly I probably have 30-40 shoots with bad tips like that :/ (all bougies)



Thanks a ton for replying, was very unsure about the watering (whether being a bit wetter helps or hurts when a cold period is coming), I understand that water's good insulation (even as ice) for trees that can handle that, but for my tropical bougies I didn't know - I totally don't mind spraying them down at dusk&dawn, just want to be certain you're saying that's good-practice even for tropicals/bougies?

Am intrigued by this 'radiational cooling' effect you mention, am going to google it - crazy that you can have freezing at >32 though, am ignorant on how the cold moves though except that it sinks and that you don't leave things directly on the ground! Would love to hear your recommendation for what, if anything, I should do with the damaged/dead leaves pictured above?

(on a tangential note, I had 2 bougies where, after removing their bags, I found more leaves with leaf-miners than ever, like double what I'd call a 'bad day' in the case of these miners (I pull at least a couple leaves every day w/ the little buggers but had a ton to pull this morning!))
Cut the damaged leaves off. They're not going to get better. Don't worry. You have pretty minor frost damage.

Jesus buddy. No--Ice on leaves won't kill anything. Hell, spraying trees with water is how citrus growers down there protect their trees and crop. Orange and other citrus trees aren't frost hardy.

REad up on the hows and whys citrus growers spray their trees with water when frost is predicted. ICE DOES NOT "CONDUCT" COLD. It does the opposite for the most part-surface water has to freeze BEFORE the moisture INSIDE the leaf cells does. Also ice GIVES UP SOME HEAT as it freezes--in other words, it can actually WARM the underlying leaf to a tiny extent....
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/spray-fruit-trees-water-before-freeze-57933.html
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-01-27/features/8501050944_1_trees-freezing-water

Also, get used to moving bonsai--even heavy bonsai. No real excuses for not doing it when they're threatened with possible killing frost and freezes (you're not in that territory YET). I (and MANY other) bonsaiists move big trees inside and outside constantly in the spring to avoid late freezes when trees are most vulnerable. Stop bitching about moving a 50 lb tree. Ive got eight that are over 50. Five that are over 100 lbs...All come inside the basement when a late March freeze is predicted.
 
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Some of us newbs sometimes thinks tress are warm blooded :rolleyes:.

I babied the hell outa my trees last year but this year they all play outside in this crazy weather. All but the Ginkgo and English Oak seeding I didn't mulch.

No wimps in my collection. Only the strongest survives!
 

rockm

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"upon removing trash bags I had on a couple plants and assessing everything"

Gotta love Floridians with no experience with temps below 40...;-)

The trash bags, if they were plastic and placed over the foliage, could be the source of your problems. Plastic bags and/or coverings to protect plants from frost are very VERY bad at it. Basically the plastic bag traps condensation against the leaves in contact with the plastic--which freezes and kills the leaf. If you have to cover the plants up use CLOTH, like burlap or old cotton sheets...

BTW, there are several KINDS of freezing in plants, causing different types of damage.
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/not-cover-plants-plastic-frost-67563.html
 
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Bonsai Nut

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The trash bags, if they were plastic and placed over the foliage, could be the source of your problems. Plastic bags and/or coverings to protect plants from frost are very VERY bad at it. Basically the plastic bag traps condensation against the leaves in contact with the plastic--which freezes and kills the leaf. If you have to cover the plants up use CLOTH, like burlap or old cotton sheets...

Yes. If you are going to use plastic (like for a humidity tent) you have to build a frame to keep the plastic from touching the plant. This applies to conifers (junipers for example) as well as deciduous.

However if you use burlap, you can just lay it on top of the tree.
 
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Cut the damaged leaves off. They're not going to get better. Don't worry. You have pretty minor frost damage.

Jesus buddy. No--Ice on leaves won't kill anything. Hell, spraying trees with water is how citrus growers down there protect their trees and crop. Orange and other citrus trees aren't frost hardy.

REad up on the hows and whys citrus growers spray their trees with water when frost is predicted. ICE DOES NOT "CONDUCT" COLD. It does the opposite for the most part-surface water has to freeze BEFORE the moisture INSIDE the leaf cells does. Also ice GIVES UP SOME HEAT as it freezes--in other words, it can actually WARM the underlying leaf to a tiny extent....
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/spray-fruit-trees-water-before-freeze-57933.html
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-01-27/features/8501050944_1_trees-freezing-water

Also, get used to moving bonsai--even heavy bonsai. No real excuses for not doing it when they're threatened with possible killing frost and freezes (you're not in that territory YET). I (and MANY other) bonsaiists move big trees inside and outside constantly in the spring to avoid late freezes when trees are most vulnerable. Stop bitching about moving a 50 lb tree. Ive got eight that are over 50. Five that are over 100 lbs...All come inside the basement when a late March freeze is predicted.
Can't wait to see you moving 100 lbs trees into the basement. Please do a YouTube so we can see what we have to do isn't even close to this. :)
 

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"upon removing trash bags I had on a couple plants and assessing everything"

Gotta love Floridians with no experience with temps below 40...;-)

The trash bags, if they were plastic and placed over the foliage, could be the source of your problems. Plastic bags and/or coverings to protect plants from frost are very VERY bad at it. Basically the plastic bag traps condensation against the leaves in contact with the plastic--which freezes and kills the leaf. If you have to cover the plants up use CLOTH, like burlap or old cotton sheets...

BTW, there are several KINDS of freezing in plants, causing different types of damage.
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/not-cover-plants-plastic-frost-67563.html
no kidding, I chuckle every time I see plastic bags on plants, its such basic knowledge that even the local news stations mention during cold panic here.
 

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Sonotube does the trick.
 

SU2

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Cut the damaged leaves off. They're not going to get better. Don't worry. You have pretty minor frost damage.

Jesus buddy. No--Ice on leaves won't kill anything. Hell, spraying trees with water is how citrus growers down there protect their trees and crop. Orange and other citrus trees aren't frost hardy.

REad up on the hows and whys citrus growers spray their trees with water when frost is predicted. ICE DOES NOT "CONDUCT" COLD. It does the opposite for the most part-surface water has to freeze BEFORE the moisture INSIDE the leaf cells does. Also ice GIVES UP SOME HEAT as it freezes--in other words, it can actually WARM the underlying leaf to a tiny extent....
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/spray-fruit-trees-water-before-freeze-57933.html
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-01-27/features/8501050944_1_trees-freezing-water

Also, get used to moving bonsai--even heavy bonsai. No real excuses for not doing it when they're threatened with possible killing frost and freezes (you're not in that territory YET). I (and MANY other) bonsaiists move big trees inside and outside constantly in the spring to avoid late freezes when trees are most vulnerable. Stop bitching about moving a 50 lb tree. Ive got eight that are over 50. Five that are over 100 lbs...All come inside the basement when a late March freeze is predicted.
Thanks, will cut them off at their petioles (figure that leaving as much of the shoot - even dead tips - is useful, if only as a barrier to what's beneath it)

Those links were incredibly informative, I thought I was a bit more knowledgeable about how the cold hits them (physical properties of the cold air moving) than I was, really appreciate being corrected (and the links as well of course :D )

And I didn't mean to come across like a wimp about moving them, I'm 100% up for it if it's a practical thing I guess I just thought it bad-practice, like if I'm going to pick-up and transport multiple >50lbs specimen every night & morning during weeks like this, I can't help but worry I'll eventually stumble and drop one in the morning when rushing to get everything back outside before work lol - it just seemed like bad-practice, but after reading your post I no longer do and will be bringing them in far more, starting tonight I'll be moving a large % of the collection into the patio overnight and that'll be my 'norm' for right now (need to find where I'd get my plastic sheeting/tarping so I'm ready-to-go if/when it becomes easier to build an 8' cube greenhouse w/ 4x4"'s than to move the collection 2x/day for weeks on end! Hopefully they toughen-up and this doesn't continue becoming a problem, I *did* see that happen after the first cold snap so hopefully it happens again, a hardening/adaption :)

(and 100lbs!? Wow I would never trust myself to move that solo and I'm quite a strong guy, well for my small size at least :p )

"upon removing trash bags I had on a couple plants and assessing everything"

Gotta love Floridians with no experience with temps below 40...;-)

The trash bags, if they were plastic and placed over the foliage, could be the source of your problems. Plastic bags and/or coverings to protect plants from frost are very VERY bad at it. Basically the plastic bag traps condensation against the leaves in contact with the plastic--which freezes and kills the leaf. If you have to cover the plants up use CLOTH, like burlap or old cotton sheets...

BTW, there are several KINDS of freezing in plants, causing different types of damage.
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/not-cover-plants-plastic-frost-67563.html

ROFL! I'm from New England so know about the cold, just never gardened in it much - I've gardened for years in FL but never had any particular specimen I cared that much about that winters caused worry!

You're 100% right on the plastic bag touching the foliage, that was certainly it (I knew it but couldn't phrase it / verbalize it but I could tell, like the most affected areas were the ones that were in the tightest spots/corners of the bags, there was a clear correlation) VERY useful to know, will be using a bed-sheet to 'tarp' a collection of them for this eve! Do you happen to have any ideas on where to get burlap for something like this? I couldn't even guess where I'd go to get it, seems it'd be very useful to have a roll of it...

Going to check out the multiple-types-of-freezing piece now, thanks again for all the help!! (I know you think I'm a spazz, hell I am a spazz, I appreciate you still helping me :) )


Some of us newbs sometimes thinks tress are warm blooded :rolleyes:.

I babied the hell outa my trees last year but this year they all play outside in this crazy weather. All but the Ginkgo and English Oak seeding I didn't mulch.

No wimps in my collection. Only the strongest survives!

Unsure what you mean by 'think trees are warm-blooded'? I feel like there's something about temperature regulation that differs between humans & plants here that you're referring to that I'm missing...if it's just fun rhetoric then NM ;)

How well did they do last year when babied, did you have many losses? And if you wouldn't mind I'd LOVE to see a pic of your ginkgo, it's totally a top-10 favorite tree for me, just incredible species!! (you mention mulching it- what do you use? I've got a bunch of black rocks, I figured the black would draw some extra heat from the sun, and the thick layer of rocks itself provides top-insulation as well as water-retention during high-winds :)


Thursday into Friday is the night to worry about, 30 degrees.

Yeah it is (god I've checked the forecast *way* too-many times today, am too on-the-fence about whether I should just build the damn greenhouse cube...think this cold week will be enough to let me know whether I can manage w/o it or not and can then just slap it together if need be!!)

Yes. If you are going to use plastic (like for a humidity tent) you have to build a frame to keep the plastic from touching the plant. This applies to conifers (junipers for example) as well as deciduous.

However if you use burlap, you can just lay it on top of the tree.

Thanks! Yeah I didn't even think of that, it was late and at first I was thinking "this will be a good test, I'm probably over-worrying", it was after dinner that I got anxious and started bringing my favorite ones into the patio, clustering them on their benches, bagging some of them etc etc...very glad I did because I would've had serious damages this morning, one of the ones I brought in would likely have been killed and it was a top 2 or 3 specimen :/
 
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379
Location
FL (Tampa area / Gulf-Coast)
USDA Zone
9b
Thursday into Friday is the night to worry about, 30 degrees.
What do you use for weather? I just use the generic google tool (type your zip-code + "weather" and it gives the forecast), it really sucks and is constantly unreliable, have even found flaws in the program itself (you can get it to give various wind-speeds for the same day by toggling through days, one time it'll say 9mph for weds and then you can get it to say 3mph or 14mph by flipping back&forth...)

I'd seen that the lowest point coming up would be thurs night into fri, it was saying 38 on google earlier but now saying 40 - would really love a more reliable weather url if you or anyone has one to suggest!
 
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