Hornbeam No.3 progression

Maros

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Hi,

I would like to share with you few pictures from my hornbeam. It is yamadori tree collected in 2009 at as one of my first trees. It is bit complicated due to unusual combination of two trunks.
I just wired whole tree recently. Still long way to go. ;)
You can find short story of this tree on my blog here.
 

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skrit

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Thats a pretty Hornbeam. I like what you've done with the twin trunk. Is it just me, or is that small crossing root bothering anybody else?
 

edprocoat

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Thats a pretty Hornbeam. I like what you've done with the twin trunk. Is it just me, or is that small crossing root bothering anybody else?

Skirt I think the crossing root gives it an air of a natural tree. It makes it look very realistic IMO.

ed
 

Maros

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Crossing root

Thats a pretty Hornbeam. I like what you've done with the twin trunk. Is it just me, or is that small crossing root bothering anybody else?

You are right Skrit, that root is bit bothering. It does not fit to bonsai rules. I thought several times about removing it. But, resisted so far. ;)
But like other guys wrote, it is natural. In nature it happens, so it can be on my tree which has no aspiration to fit handbook rules. It is collected tree, therefore it has some problematic and some interesting features. That's part of the game for me.
 

sorce

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Maros,
Another Nice one.

So nice In fact, that maybe you should move that root!

But it is only noticeable in that one pic.

Sorce
 

Djtommy

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Just because it looks like natural doesnt mean it looks nice though, judging from the picture, i would probably remove that root.
But with or without, nice tree you made!
 

skrit

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So perhaps it's not just me, but clearly there are two (or more) views. I agree that nature is (in general) rarely 'perfect' and that the small crossing root is certainly a normal and natural expression of the tree's growth. Although there are certainly circumstances where nature provides for a surprising amount of order and patterning (e.g. the Fibonacci sequence), most natural growth is chaotic. It's evident in the artistic or design based descriptive term 'organic', and it's understandable that a bonsai artist would with to evoke that feeling. My feeling of discomfort with this particular example is it's solitary nature. Although there are a very few other crossing or lateral roots, none of the others are as substantial nor do they interrupt the flowing lines of the trunk flare. I think that it's an interruption in flow, distracting my eye as it travels from the hollows in the roots up the tree.

Clearly not everyone agrees, and that's fine. I'm relatively new to this hobby and very glad that so many people responded to my comment while complementing this tree. I'm really happy that we can have these kinds of discussions without anybody getting crazy. ;) Maros, I hope that you don't make a hasty decision to remove the root based on my comment, or the subsequent discussion. I would hope, more than anything, that you choose your actions based on what you think would make the tree most beautiful.

All that said, I'm really impressed with the level of branch ramification that Maros has managed to achieve in only 5 years. The defoliated winter photo is really great. Is this level of branching (in this time span) something typically achievable with hornbeams, or is Maros' experienced green thumb playing a larger roll than normal for this species? (I have NO hornbeam experience) Are they typically fast growers / prolific back-budders?
 

Maros

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hornbeams

So perhaps it's not just me, but clearly there are two (or more) views. I agree that nature is (in general) rarely 'perfect' and that the small crossing root is certainly a normal and natural expression of the tree's growth. Although there are certainly circumstances where nature provides for a surprising amount of order and patterning (e.g. the Fibonacci sequence), most natural growth is chaotic. It's evident in the artistic or design based descriptive term 'organic', and it's understandable that a bonsai artist would with to evoke that feeling. My feeling of discomfort with this particular example is it's solitary nature. Although there are a very few other crossing or lateral roots, none of the others are as substantial nor do they interrupt the flowing lines of the trunk flare. I think that it's an interruption in flow, distracting my eye as it travels from the hollows in the roots up the tree.

Clearly not everyone agrees, and that's fine. I'm relatively new to this hobby and very glad that so many people responded to my comment while complementing this tree. I'm really happy that we can have these kinds of discussions without anybody getting crazy. ;) Maros, I hope that you don't make a hasty decision to remove the root based on my comment, or the subsequent discussion. I would hope, more than anything, that you choose your actions based on what you think would make the tree most beautiful.

All that said, I'm really impressed with the level of branch ramification that Maros has managed to achieve in only 5 years. The defoliated winter photo is really great. Is this level of branching (in this time span) something typically achievable with hornbeams, or is Maros' experienced green thumb playing a larger roll than normal for this species? (I have NO hornbeam experience) Are they typically fast growers / prolific back-budders?

Thanks for your comment. I like that we discuss about crossing root issue it is interesting it is so disturbing element for many. I did not consider it to be big issus for myself till now. Anyway it is easy to correct it as you write. Ill take pruners, go to garden and it will be solved in minute. I wish every design problem on my trees is easy to repair. :)

Speaking about arts, I do not feel like expert here. But not everything on artistic creation must necessarily be beautiful and nice. There could be ugly elements, or disturbing elements on creation when they create some kind of emotion. And they may be positive or negative. Hmm?

Speaking about Hornbeam as species, I can say about what I know Carpinus betulus is great and Carpinus orinetalis (growing in south Europe, not native to Central Europe) is even better. They back-bud well from old wood no problem. Betulus is naturally creating good nebari and masculine trunks sometimes with nice structure. They grow fast if cared properly and are able to create gentle branches. They have some lowlights also but still they are great to work with for me. ;)
Regarding orientalis check at what friends from Croatia are doing with them in short time span. Amazing.
 

Maros

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Hi, I would like to post few update pictures of this hornbeam from growing season.

Tree was left to grown untouched until May.
DSC_9175.JPG


When I decided it is time to remove wire, so tree was defoliated, partly.

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Left tree was mostly intact, and sacrifice branches were left to grow and help branches gain volume.

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So tree gained enough foliage and recently was time to remove excess growth again.

And tree currently looks like this:
DSC_9992.JPG


DSC_9990.JPG
 

Maros

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Tree was edited recently, you can see on one picture before in raw state. Some branches were shortened, no wire this time. It is several years already since second chop now. Initially during collecting tree was chopped too high. Now it is visible some structure of the trunks and branches is already built but it will require few more years to achieve credible result. Tree will stay in current pot due to horticultural reason mostly, I need very strong growth on second tree. I usually leave very long sacrifice branches on all trunks on secondary tree to gain maximum girth gain during the growing season.
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Before work tree looked like this.

DSC_1932.JPG
 

JudyB

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I like this tree, glad to see it posted again. It appears to me that some of the branches are still too heavy for the upper parts of the tree. Or are these your sacrifice branches?
 

Maros

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I like this tree, glad to see it posted again. It appears to me that some of the branches are still too heavy for the upper parts of the tree. Or are these your sacrifice branches?
Thanks JudyB. Regarding branches - if you mean those branches/trunks on straight trunk in development, those are in development and I keep growth on those during whole growing season untouched and they tend to grow really long, as much as meter in length. Therefore they thicken significantly and they are causing thickening of everything growing beneath them. While doing that, dimensions of various parts of the tree change during the season and sometimes it happens that some parts are too strong. So as it was done now, I had to cut out few branches, shorten them. I do not think it is a problem, since it will add more taper to the branch structure, scars are small and heal over well.
If you were referring to second "finished" tree, there were also reductions and branches were shortened. Now tree will back bud hopefully, new growth will be wired and in autumn or next spring all this sections will be edited again. But this also seems to me like continuous job on structure, in endless cycle of growth-cutting and shortening, removing strong parts and substituting them with new growth. Which also creates taper and make structure of the crown more mature.

I hope I was not lost in translation :)
 

lieuz

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What a fine specimen you have here. From a certain angle, this tree looks like two trees fused at the base, like Siamese twins. Question, have you ever considered the possibility of removing the middle trunk, to create twin trunk? As many have stated before there are quite a few options in this tree. It's a very fine specimen. I didn't realize this but that branch I was referring to is in front so it will possibly leave a terrible wound.
 

Maros

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What a fine specimen you have here. From a certain angle, this tree looks like two trees fused at the base, like Siamese twins. Question, have you ever considered the possibility of removing the middle trunk, to create twin trunk? As many have stated before there are quite a few options in this tree. It's a very fine specimen. I didn't realize this but that branch I was referring to is in front so it will possibly leave a terrible wound.
On very beginning it was three trunks, you can see third thin trunk on initial picture. Now there are two trunks fused together at the base. Now I'm trying to grow completely new crown from initially boringly straight trunk. So, the straight trunk is now splitting into three sub trunks growing from cut point. If all three sub trunks will stay there or not in the future is a question. It will depend on how healing process on wound will proceed, and how it will look like when sub trunks will gain another few centimeters of girth.
I give names to few of my better trees, and I call this one "Gemini" so you are spot on with the twins idea. :) Check my blog for more info on this tree, it will give you better perspective of the development.
 

discusmike

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Wish we had Korean hornbeam yamadori in my neck of the woods
 
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