Hornbeam seedlings, preferrably European

sfhellwig

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Hornbeams don't seem to be so popular right now. At least not for just going on-line and buying one. I am looking for 1-3 seedlings. First year to a few years old. Main goal is to pick up a hornbeam or a few for cheap.I would prefer a European but would also take American. If you happen to have a Korean seedling laying around I'd even consider that but I think we're stretching for that one.
 

donamitu

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There are plenty to choose from at Wee Tree Farm and Evergreen Gardenworks.
 

rockm

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"Hornbeams don't seem to be so popular right now."

Don't know where you got that idea. Hornbeam--of any variety--is a lot more popular and available now than it was 10 years ago.

Bill Valavanis at International bonsai is an excellent source for Korean hornbeam seedlings--has been for a couple of decades now. I bought a few 13 years ago from him that have worked up into great little trees.

Go to

http://www.internationalbonsai.com/

and click on "bare root seedlings" download the catalogue.

You can also find KH occasionally at places like Home Depot--as Brussell's Bonsai sells them wholesale to that chain
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs..._mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D28X-_-202019284

Carolina hornbeam is extremely hardy here in most of the states--and a lot more available in larger sizes and for not much money. European hornbeam, not so much...
 
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sfhellwig

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Guess I just hadn't looked hard enough. I don't think it is very popular in my neck of the woods.

I had noticed a thread lower down from last year asking about hornbeam and referring to Evergreen Gardenworks. Unfortunately it looks like mostly specimen plants. I would like the 1 gal. but am really working with seedlings this year.

The International bonsai catalogue is awesome. I enjoyed looking through that immensely. And I would probably buy a bundle of seedlings if I hadn't already bought several handfuls of maples. Both of these I will keep in mind for next year.

The Wee Tree Farms looks about right. It's a European and I could pick up a few and not take up much room. I went back to my original search terms and that link eventually came up on the third page of search results. Guess I'll have to remember that the next time I'm really looking for something.

And I would like to believe that I could go to a local garden center and find a hornbeam somewhere, but my luck with finding things locally has just been junk. I was trying to secure one to ship dormant as I have had success with this. The American has been a consideration after reading it's transplanting tolerance. Perhaps it was your account, Rockm, I am thinking about. Something about digging nearly bare root in the summer and having little trouble. Maybe I'll get lucky and end up with two hornbeams this year if one shows up locally.

Thanks for sharing the sources!
 
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rockm

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Carpinus Caroliniana is native to Kansas and sold in nurseries there--do a search on "American Hornbeam" or "Carpinus Caroliniana" and "Kansas" to find a few. You also might start looking in creek beds and moister areas around you for yamadori (get permission of course). Carolina Hornbeam grows along the fertile, moist paths of creeks and in lowland or bottomland soils...They're extremely common if you know what they look like and where to find them. Collecting is not hard.

The species is iron tough and works up into pretty good bonsai. Individual specimens, even nursery grown specimens, almost always have extremely nice basal flare (root buttresses) vastly superior to KH and European Hornbeam.

Euro hornbeam may not enjoy the heat of Kansas summers, while Carolina Hornbeam won't miss a beat in oppressive heat.
 

sfhellwig

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I had not really thought about the heat being the demise. I just know it was cold hardy and that the European and Korean are usually sited for bonsai work. However, being an understory and moist loving tree anyway, perhaps the American would be a wise choice. Going back to "grow native" I could use all the help I can get. I do have farmland I can look over, not too much creek bed area. We'll see what I might spot. Unfortunately I couldn't ID the tree unless in leaf and then is not proper time to lift. But Carpinus Caroliniana can be collected in less than idea conditions right? And seedlings are easier to take more roots. I could only hope to find one. Otherwise I know where to find seedlings also.
 

Ang3lfir3

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the American Hornbeam makes for great bonsai and is sadly under used here.... they look much like all other Carpinus and can be treat using the same information...i believe as i have never collected one... only styled one already as a bonsai.... I wouldn't bother with seedlings and instead look for larger specimens.... the amount of effort required to safely collect a large one versus the time it would take to grow a seedling to size is vastly skewed in favor of collecting a larger specimen..... They should be as eas to collect as any other deciduous species (meaning rather easy with a good shovel and a good saw)....


good luck.....
 

rockm

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American hornbeam has distinctive bark--it's called "blue beech" and "musclewood" in the South. the bark is smooth, gunmetal grayish to a bluish tone. Larger specimens (where there's a big 'un, there's usually smaller ones) have ripples in their trunks--like muscles and sinew under skin...

http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/trees/caca.html

Forget looking for leafed out specimens, leaves look alot like Ameircan beech. Those nfamiliar with both tend to confuse the two because of the similar leaves. The fluted sinewy trunk is the most distinctive feature of hornbeam.

If you're going to go to the trouble of collecting one, get something bigger than a seedling. If you go with seedlings, you might as well buy them. The intent of collecting is to get a good substantial trunk and nebari...They can take quite a bit of punishment, but if it's your first time digging one, dig one that's not the pick of the litter, save the "good stuff" --if there are others---for when you've gotten the hang of collecting.
 

sfhellwig

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My intent in collecting is to acquire trees for free:rolleyes:. Having said that so far I am mostly removing seedlings from flower beds and the paths of mowers. Being still young in this hobby, right now I collect small trees to "keep them alive" and increase my species collection. Bigger, worthwhile trees are to come in a few years. Having said that, IF: I can find what I think is a hornbeam by bark texture, it's a size worth my time, and it's not buried in brush then I'm game. I have not done a lot of collecting but do have experience with digging and transplanting plants. Just not specimen type plants. Either way a hunting trip is a hunting trip and it will give me a chance to mark trees for observance. If I find something really worthwhile I can at least spade a ring around it for next year's digging.

Thanks guys. My plans are much more well defined now.
 

rockm

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"My intent in collecting is to acquire trees for free"

Um, but they're NOT free :D:rolleyes:. They require work to get and know-how to get them to survive--even if they're only seedlings. This knowledge takes some time to acquire and refine. The trees you dig now will probably die. That's the way the learning curve works. Oh, by the way, forget the "collecting" advice you read in books--it's mostly La-La land advice. Things NEVER work that way in the field. "Spading around" a tree is a very inefficient way to prepare a tree for next year's collection.

Additionally, the equipment, time and resources you use are your payment for whatever you dig--not only with sweat, bug (or worse) bites, destroyed knuckles and knees, proper collecting tools (shovels are mostly unnecessary in digging hornbeam, but hand pruning saws, sharpshooter digging tools, hand pruners and trowels are invaluable), soil components (no, you can't plant a collected tree in a pot with soil you dig along with it) and shelter (winter protection is a must for newly dug trees in their first year in a container), etc. all add to the costs. They're one time up front expenses (until the tools wear out--which can happen every season with pruning saws), but they are expenses.

If you're only after seedlings-you're probably better off just buying them. It would be cheaper and more efficient.
 
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rockm

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Thanks Walter, pretty much the way I have dug Carolina hornbeam, except I've found they can survive with even less root mass than that.

Oh--and apparently Euro hornbeam grows in exposed areas. Carolina Hornbeam doesn't grow on windswept ridges. It grows mostly in overgrown swampy bottoms along creeks--hip waders are recommended when collecting them, as well as a keen eye for copperhead and canebrake rattlers...and shotgun toting landowners (if you haven't asked permission)
 

sfhellwig

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And I totally agree with everything in your post. Just to let you know a little of why I am willing to pursue this: A few of the plants I have dug are a group of nandina, running bamboo, Eastern Redcedar saplings, various yard annuals and constant lifting and splitting of bananas. My list of digging tools in this order are garden fork, bypass lopping shears, shovel, prybar. All last year I kept lifting various seedlings from the university campus. The really little ones are very likely to live because it's so easy to get two handfuls of dirt around it. The only ones that died were the larger seedlings where I jacked the bottoms of the roots. We'll see how many survived the winter in my glass window lean-to. Does all of this qualify me to go in the woods and dig trees up. No, but I think my odds are fair. I will clearly admit I am in my major learning period. That's why I'm after seedlings and coming back for the nicer ones later.

The comment about free trees was totally in humor. Even with permission, nothing is free. I'm still on the fence about ordering a little one just so I have my guarantee of having one this year. I will waffle about it for a few days. Perhaps I will decide as I take a few more divisions of bamboo this weekend.
 

sfhellwig

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Walter, that is a truly inspiring sequence and a true treasure that you collected. It reminds me that I have a pick axe, hadn't had to use that one yet. I really need to do some leg work on the family farm to find a good piece to collect. I just need to identify what is there and I know I'm not ready to go very big yet.
 

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