Hornbeam - Trunk chop first winter, what to expect next spring

CWTurner

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I collected this American Hornbeam from upstate Pennsylvania early in the Spring of 2014.

It was growing in a marshy hillside (hence the uneven base) with a nice mass of fine roots. I merely lopped 4-5 big horizontal roots and harvested it in about 5 minutes. I cut the trunk down to about 20" or so, bare rooted it, put it in my bonsai mix, and let her grow.

The tree threw out a bunch of sprouts, with plenty of healthy leaves but nothing was more than about 6" up from the base. The tree bark appears alive still, up to the top of the cut. (I did get one tiny bud about 18" up the trunk late in summer, but it died off)

My questions:
Will I get sprouts higher up the trunk next spring?
Will it help to get those sprouts if I chop the trunk down to about 10-12" which Is where I'd hope the final trunk height to be?
Will pruning off some of this year's sprouts force more growth, and if so, will that be higher up the trunk?

Thanks for your opinions.

CW
 

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discusmike

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If it were mine, i would let it grow unchecked another season to attain more vigor, then see how things are next spring, i would remove any suckers if they appear.
 

Zach Smith

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I collected this American Hornbeam from upstate Pennsylvania early in the Spring of 2014.

It was growing in a marshy hillside (hence the uneven base) with a nice mass of fine roots. I merely lopped 4-5 big horizontal roots and harvested it in about 5 minutes. I cut the trunk down to about 20" or so, bare rooted it, put it in my bonsai mix, and let her grow.

The tree threw out a bunch of sprouts, with plenty of healthy leaves but nothing was more than about 6" up from the base. The tree bark appears alive still, up to the top of the cut. (I did get one tiny bud about 18" up the trunk late in summer, but it died off)

My questions:
Will I get sprouts higher up the trunk next spring?
Will it help to get those sprouts if I chop the trunk down to about 10-12" which Is where I'd hope the final trunk height to be?
Will pruning off some of this year's sprouts force more growth, and if so, will that be higher up the trunk?

Thanks for your opinions.

CW
Unfortunately, CW, the answers are no, no and no. Your hornbeam is only alive to the highest shoot, and from all appearances it's pretty weak. Leave it alone next year, feed heavily and see what you get by way of growth in 2015. In 2016 you can consider chopping the trunk back to near where the live tissue is. This will depend on the strength of the tree.

I don't know how you handled the tree at the time of collection, but always be sure to seal any trunk chops on hornbeam, and never attempt to collect after budburst.

Good luck with your hornbeam!

Zach
 

sorce

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You might want to keep it away from those reindeer too!

This is a pretty nice trunk!

Sorce
 

JudyB

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I'm sure Zach is correct, but with that said, if you can get it healthy, you really don't need any more than the first 6" of this tree to make a good bonsai out of it. Let it grow and gain vigor, then chop at an appropriate time to above the new branch. You'll make your new section of trunk out of that. Looks like a decent base and some good movement to start with at least.
 

crust

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My experience with American HB is they do not reliably respond to chops. Sometimes they just die back to the base and re-sprout. I would only cut the trunk if it was clearly vigorous.
 

crust

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Oh, and if it is even moderately happy get rid of the basal shoots--make it grow up higher and keep after it. They want to revert to the base and reject the trunk. The trunk will take a million years to re-grow.
 

CWTurner

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Hornbeam - Trunk chop first winter, what to expect next spring OP

I've attached a back view of the tree where you can see the "highest" shoot.

Discusmike: It looks to me like suckers is all I have at this point.

Zach Smith: I hadn't checked that the tree was alive up to the top since mid-summer, and you are correct that the tree is only alive to the top shoot. You can see the marks where I scraped away the bark, and it is indeed dead down to at least 10". I'll try the "feed and leave" advice and hope for the best. The brown material in the first pic is actually a fern that came along for the ride during collection. Maybe that's what looks unhealthy to you?

JudyB: It looks like this is going to be a shorter tree than I envisioned.

Crust: Seems my Hornbeam agrees with your opinion and is only sprouting very low on the trunk. If the higher shoot in this second pic comes out healthy this spring, I think that I will cut the lower shoots and hope for the best.

BTW, there are dozens of these trees on our upstate property and I'm training a couple while still in the ground, cutting 1/3 of the root ball, pruning some of the top growth etc, and hopefully doing this will allow me to harvest a better specimen a 4-5 years
 

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crust

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I've attached a back view of the tree where you can see the "highest" shoot.

Discusmike: It looks to me like suckers is all I have at this point.

Zach Smith: I hadn't checked that the tree was alive up to the top since mid-summer, and you are correct that the tree is only alive to the top shoot. You can see the marks where I scraped away the bark, and it is indeed dead down to at least 10". I'll try the "feed and leave" advice and hope for the best. The brown material in the first pic is actually a fern that came along for the ride during collection. Maybe that's what looks unhealthy to you?

JudyB: It looks like this is going to be a shorter tree than I envisioned.

Crust: Seems my Hornbeam agrees with your opinion and is only sprouting very low on the trunk. If the higher shoot in this second pic comes out healthy this spring, I think that I will cut the lower shoots and hope for the best.

BTW, there are dozens of these trees on our upstate property and I'm training a couple while still in the ground, cutting 1/3 of the root ball, pruning some of the top growth etc, and hopefully doing this will allow me to harvest a better specimen a 4-5 years


I am trying to work out the best mode with these understory trees and am not sure. It seems that the transition from the wild is a problem. Lenz had a bunch of then on his old adirondack mountain property and when he tried ground hacking them in the field it did not work out. When he tried to just collect them there was alot of death and stumping and then the surviors seemed to never get aggressive enough to be trained. I suspect one way to go is to try to invigorate them in place by serious fertilizing--root cutting--compost/granular adding-- more serious fertilizer--then collect. Worked for me--once.

Another approuch could be to trust that the trunk has the most energy the day it is collected and do the european trick of slipping them into a plactic bag with spagnum right after collecting and hide them in the shade for 5 days and see if the trunk is sprouting then pot them and baby them until the new sprouts are stronger--this has been done on hawthornes evidently with success.
 

JudyB

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Crust: Seems my Hornbeam agrees with your opinion and is only sprouting very low on the trunk. If the higher shoot in this second pic comes out healthy this spring, I think that I will cut the lower shoots and hope for the best.

I'm not sure I'd cut all the lower shoots off right away. They will feed the roots for you until the tree strengthens, I would let them alone for a bit.
 

Zach Smith

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I've attached a back view of the tree where you can see the "highest" shoot.

Discusmike: It looks to me like suckers is all I have at this point.

Zach Smith: I hadn't checked that the tree was alive up to the top since mid-summer, and you are correct that the tree is only alive to the top shoot. You can see the marks where I scraped away the bark, and it is indeed dead down to at least 10". I'll try the "feed and leave" advice and hope for the best. The brown material in the first pic is actually a fern that came along for the ride during collection. Maybe that's what looks unhealthy to you?

JudyB: It looks like this is going to be a shorter tree than I envisioned.

Crust: Seems my Hornbeam agrees with your opinion and is only sprouting very low on the trunk. If the higher shoot in this second pic comes out healthy this spring, I think that I will cut the lower shoots and hope for the best.

BTW, there are dozens of these trees on our upstate property and I'm training a couple while still in the ground, cutting 1/3 of the root ball, pruning some of the top growth etc, and hopefully doing this will allow me to harvest a better specimen a 4-5 years
Hornbeam is easy to collect provided you adhere to a few rules. Perhaps foremost is this: you MUST seal the trunk chop and any other cut 1/4" and over in diameter. If you don't, count on the trunk losing moisture and the tree dying back at a minimum. Now, with that said it's also worth noting that collecting trees from the interior of wooded land brings with it an extra difficulty, namely, these trees are naturally weaker than those collected at the edges of the woods, in ditches or along fencerows because they've been shaded their whole lives. You should collect from areas that get sun whenever possible, regardless of species.

Finally, I do dust the cut ends of larger roots with rooting powder. My success rate is typically about 80%.

I'd say keep at it until you get it right. Sounds like you have a lot to practice on.

Good luck!

Zach
 

discusmike

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This tree doesnt have much taper anyway, let those new braches grow unchecked and make one your new leader, its gonna take time but i think it will pay off in the long run,eventually cut the gun barrel dead trunk portion off.
 

berobinson82

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Hornbeam is easy to collect provided you adhere to a few rules. Perhaps foremost is this: you MUST seal the trunk chop and any other cut 1/4" and over in diameter. If you don't, count on the trunk losing moisture and the tree dying back at a minimum. Now, with that said it's also worth noting that collecting trees from the interior of wooded land brings with it an extra difficulty, namely, these trees are naturally weaker than those collected at the edges of the woods, in ditches or along fencerows because they've been shaded their whole lives. You should collect from areas that get sun whenever possible, regardless of species.

Finally, I do dust the cut ends of larger roots with rooting powder. My success rate is typically about 80%.

I'd say keep at it until you get it right. Sounds like you have a lot to practice on.

Good luck!

Zach

Some advice that I got from Zach that I have saved in my Dropbox regarding American Hornbeam. I find every bit of this information to be true:

1. I collect all of the above species in January and February. I do not wait until buds are swelling, though this may not be harmful to survival rates.
2. Each tree is cut to about 12-30" in height, depending on basal thickness (2-8", respectively, for the heights noted). The trunks should not be left overly long.
3. Roots are cut back severely, to roughly 8" from the trunk base (final cuts are made at home, using either a trunk splitter or saw). (All the new roots will sprout from the cut ends, so hack away.)
4. The collected tree, with whatever soil remains (often none) is buried in a tub filled with a bonsai mix that includes sand for water retention. It's then watered thoroughly to keep it moist during the ride home.
5. Within three hours (my typical collecting range), the trees are given their final prep before potting in grow pots (or tubs, for larger specimens). All native soil is washed from the roots, rooting hormone dusted on the cut ends, and all cuts over 1/2" are sealed with cut paste (do NOT fail to seal the cuts, the tree will dry out from the cut ends and mortality rates will rise).
6. Trees usually bud out in spring, not summer. Late budding does not necessarily spell death, but it often signals weakness that is difficult to overcome.
7. I use a cordless reciprocating saw, equipped with either a 6" or 12" pruning blade, to collect everything. If your soil is not rocky, you're crazy to use a shovel or hand saw. If your soil is rocky, you're on your own.
8. Never try to collect black cherry. They just don't work out.

I specialize in deciduous species, been at it for 25 years, so I'm speaking from experience.

I hope this helps.

Zach
 

CWTurner

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OP

Thanks to all for the advice. I'll try to apply your suggestions on this and other Hornbeams.

Look for a followup in the Spring.

CW
 

CWTurner

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klosi,
Nothing but bad news. This and two other hornbeam collected at the same time all died this past Spring. All leafed out (I did repot one), then fizzled. I realize now that I was expecting too much as these are apparently difficult trees. I also didn't follow all of Zach's recommendations. I am pruning some while still in the ground and found that even there, trunk chops seem to kill the trunk (I didn't seal those chops). The

I'll probably try again in the Spring of 2016 and immediately seal all wounds as well as doing a shorter trunk chop and not expect any growth higher than a 6-8" up the trunk.

I will try to remember to update this post if things work out any better then.
CW
 

mrcasey

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My experience has been very similar to CWTurner's. These trees haven't been nearly as friendly to me as I had hoped. I can't get back budding
on older wood to save my life. Also had some trunk grafts that failed miserably. When I trunk chop, the new shoots, if there are any, come up off
the surface roots. I use cut paste too. Bah!
 

Zach Smith

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My experience has been very similar to CWTurner's. These trees haven't been nearly as friendly to me as I had hoped. I can't get back budding
on older wood to save my life. Also had some trunk grafts that failed miserably. When I trunk chop, the new shoots, if there are any, come up off
the surface roots. I use cut paste too. Bah!
Don't give up. Hornbeams are very easy to collect successfully (expect 80% success rate). Here's a quick guide (works with most deciduous species):

1. First of all, unless you're working in very rocky soil use either a hand-held saw or cordless reciprocating saw. Shovels are too much work.
2. Once you've selected your victim, go ahead and saw off the trunk at a spot a bit longer than what you want. You'll make a second cut when potting it up.
3. Saw around the circumference of the tree roughly 6-8 inches from the trunk. Again, you'll be making second cuts when potting up so this cut can be a bit long.
4. Get up under the trunk with your saw (if using a cordless saw get the 12" pruning blade) and cut the taproot.
5. The tree should either lift now or the taproot be sufficiently cut to allow you to push over the tree and snap the tap. Finish sawing through if it's not already free.
6. I always bring tubs of rough nursery soil with me. The newly lifted trees go into this and get watered. If you can lift a soil ball and wrap it, then by all means do so. I've never had this happen satisfactorily, and if it doesn't then the root area is in danger of drying out before you get the tree home which is a big no-no. Just be sure the root zone stays moist.
7. Once home, wash all native soil off the roots. Make another cut of the trunk and cut each lateral root closer to the trunk. The cuts should be roughly three diameters of the root at its base in length.
8. Dust the roots with rooting powder.
9. Pot in the soil of your choice. I use unsifted bonsai soil. Water thoroughly.
10. Seal the chop and any other cut 1/4" or more with cut seal. I don't recommend the putty type, as it tends to dry out and allow the cuts to do likewise.

Hornbeams should be collected in winter. I begin winter collecting right after the New Year.

Zach
 
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