Horstmann Blue Atlantic Cedar questions

[August44]

I purchases two Horstmanns that I wanted to work with. They are 20-24" tall and one has very good lower branching as well. Can I get the do's and don'ts on root pruning, branch pruning etc on this tree? I understand they are slow growing and I have transferred them to nice sized grow pots and am thinking about a cascade on one and semi cascade on the other. Thanks in advance for help. Peter

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I have never grown any Cedrus, they are not quite winter hardy in my area. From my reading, 'Hortmann' will grow about 6 to 8 inches a year, relatively slow for a Cedrus atlantica. It is naturally upright, and branches will tend to be horizontal. I would take the general adage, go slow, not too many insults in one year, as one would for spruce until you get a feel for what you can get away with. If you already repotted, you are probably ''done'' for this growing season. End of the summer you can do some pruning and wiring. I will let others tell you how easily or how difficult it is to get a Cedrus to become a cascade. Shimpaku will cascade relatively easily. Larch are almost impossible to get to cascade. I imagine Cedrus can be trained as cascade, as I've seen photos, but I don't know how difficult it is to get them to cooperate.

 

[August44]

Hi Leo and thanks for the reply. The ones I received are quite limber as you can see by the pictures. I will train this one a bit and let the other one just grow wild. They should be interesting down the road and add a lot of color to the conifer group on the bench. Someone trimmer off all the growth for the first 5" or so on the trunks. Hope they bud back and regain some of that. Thanks for the help, Peter

 

[Adair M]

I have a couple Atlas Cedar. They are very flexible, and the branches don’t “take” curves very well. They will revert back to their original positions unless they are kept wired for several seasons.

They back bud very well. The trick is not to pinch them during the spring. Let them grow, then cut back to a bud or little branchlet in mid summer.

You can (should) get some copper wire and put LOTS more curves in that tree! For some ideas just google “Atlas Cedar bonsai” then click “images”.

 

[penumbra]

Good looking plants. It is one of my favorites and I have two small ones to work on this year. The best looking Atlas Cedar bonsai I ever saw was a windswept style. Of the thousands of bonsais I have seen, I can't get that one out of my head.
Good luck.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

I have a couple Atlas Cedar. They are very flexible, and the branches don’t “take” curves very well. They will revert back to their original positions unless they are kept wired for several seasons.

They back bud very well. The trick is not to pinch them during the spring. Let them grow, then cut back to a bud or little branchlet in mid summer.

You can (should) get some copper wire and put LOTS more curves in that tree! For some ideas just google “Atlas Cedar bonsai” then click “images”.

Hi Adair M,
Via another thread you suggested that a chop and grow over 7-10 years was a contrived method of growing a trunk for this conifer.
So I have a couple of questions for myself and the OP may find helpful.
1. Via keeping a lower branch to become the new trunk, can I grow out this species in the ground to gain trunk girth, so I have something more than a stick-in-pot look after 5-7 years?
2. If #1 is not really and option, would growing in a large box/pot and use sacrificial leaders, like JBP techniques?
3. Or am I missing something? ( apart from patience for 10-15 years).

4. I have seen you have well refined atlas cedars, so how did you get there?

Thank you for your experienced head to help understand how to successfully grow this species.
Charles

 

[Adair M]

The fastest way to get a fat trunk is by growing in the ground. The challenge is keeping the roots “in check” during this time so that you can eventually dig it up and pot it. Occasionally, “prune” the root by cutting then with a sharp shovel.

Also, you can begin wiring and styling it while it’s in the ground.

Alternatively, you could grow them out in grow boxes.

 

[Adair M]

My Atlas Cedars were not grown by me, they were grown by Jim Gremel. I have visited his place, so I seen his “grow field”.

He wires young stock to give them some movement, sets the branches, then puts them in the ground to grow. He lets the wire cut in quite a bit before he removes it. Does a hard prune. Then, wires them again. In the ground. Repeat.

 

[August44]

Thanks all for you're input with this. Adair M you suggest copper wire...will annealed al. wire work as well? I did wire the other one a bit, but it is easy to knock off little buds when doing that. I don't have the option to put them in the ground as they are zone 6 and I am in zone 5. I'm glad that they bud back easily and will grow strong verses slow. At my age that is a plus! Peter

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Annealed copper wire, that was annealed correctly, will be very soft and easy to apply, but will ''work harden'', it will get quite stiff and hold well for a number of years once it is in place. Biggest issue, if you don't get it right on the first pass, it hardens and becomes difficult to adjust placement of wire once you put in down the first time. Unwiring a branch and rewiring with the same wire can be very difficult, as the wire will be so stiff there will be the risk of breaking the branch. Once in place work hardened copper wire will hold the branch in position for years if necessary. Even the feral neighbor's cat rubbing against the tree won't necessarily knock the copper wired branch out of position. Once applied, the branch stays there. Critical for conifers where you wire them and then leave them wired up for 2 years or more.

Aluminum wire is ''infinitely'' flexible. Much easier to use especially with arthritic hands. Problem is, the aluminum wire needs to be close to the same diameter as the branch you are wiring in order to have ''holding power''. Second problem is if you move your trees around, or bump them while watering or have a neighbor's cat rub up against them, the aluminum will move, usually every month or two I have to remember where I originally put the branches and move them all back into place because they got knocked out of position.

So each has its strengths. Aluminum is cheaper, easier to work and rework. It is used most often for deciduous trees with wood that hardens quickly, like hornbeam, Azalea and others where you really only need the wire on for a couple months. Because it is cheaper, you just cut the wire off in little bits after it has done its job.

My arthritic hands will hurt at the end of a 4 hour wiring session with copper. I hurt a bit less with aluminum. I've learned to use both. The more I use copper the more I like the results. But if you want to avoid arthritic flare ups, aluminum is the way to go.

 

[August44]

WOW Leo...that was a very good and knowledgeable answer. So with annealed copper wire, how big does it have to be in comparison to the branch? What makes that copper wire get stiff after putting it on if you know. That's amazing! Thanks, Peter