House Money Junipers

Hartinez

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As the title suggests, Ive started several juniper projects over the last 2 1/2 years that feel like “house Money”. No real investment per say, or even sentimental value with each of these, more an opportunity to push them horticulturally and through design. Several of the trees shared will just be threads that I’ve started over the years showing trees that were what id call “house money Junipers”.

As a general rule, the tree needs to start healthy. Its existing health and energy is what I'm using to push it hard. In my climate, if after care is proper, I can style almost any time of the growing season, up until mid to late august. Ive lost a few styling later than that. If Im styling July through August, I will not repot and will just leave the rootball as is. I will though, depending on the trees response, repot aggressively next spring.

I can repot aggressively up until mid to late June, not bare rooting, but a severe root reduction for sure. If I do repot heavily in that window, I often reduce foliage heavily down to what I see myself keeping for an initial styling. Often, if I repot heavy and reduce heavy, I will wait 2 months or so to do any styling work depending on how the tree responds. If the tree responds great, I‘ll style, as long as I'm in my styling window.

Here’s the thing, I also have quite a few great yamadori, some higher end Juniper and other projects, that I DO NOT WANT TO KILL. Having these clearance, cheap junipers lets me practice my chops (on styling mostly), but also shows me what I can get away with and when and gets me to really focus on my after care. Also, if, and lately it definitely has, the tree survives, then Ive got a great tree to grow and move forward with. One which I can potentially make valuable or graft with better foliage and really make it sing.

Not saying any of these trees posted are next level, but they are fun and I think have great starts and great current conditions. This thread was born out of a few things.

1 - I personally feel that I dont see enough people willing to fully commit to a design on a nursery juniper that is clearly quite healthy. Wire and make mistakes. Look at pictures and go all in. Take chances with design and bending and wiring. If its a cheap juniper and you have 20, 30 plus other trees, than I think you’ve got house money.

2 - the other reason was this quote I read by @Smoke the other day that I liked. May be a little gruff to some, but i like the sentiment personally.

“Please help me understand what the problem is. For years I just did it. If it worked great, if it didn't I just threw it in the trash and moved on. Most times I always learned something sometimes positive, sometimes negative, but learned something never the less.

So what is the problem? I see only a couple reasons.

1. No confidence in ability
2. Just don't know how to start.
3. Only piece of material and can't afford to replace it right now if I screw up.

No. 3 I totally get. It's hard to experiment on a single piece of material and then finding a replacement may be hard or out of the budget.

No. 1 and 2, you have to break some eggs to make an omelet. Get busy!!!”
 

Hartinez

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Hartinez

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Esolin

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Very cool. Your before and afters are inspiring to me. I really need to go buy something cheap and just butcher it--carve out a firm starting design like you do. I'm always too conservative with pruning, even on bargain buys.
 

Hartinez

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Very cool. Your before and afters are inspiring to me. I really need to go buy something cheap and just butcher it--carve out a firm starting design like you do. I'm always too conservative with pruning, even on bargain buys.
I can’t say my practices are best or most efficient. But all of my cheap trees have certainly taught me a lot.
 

leatherback

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Here’s the thing, I also have quite a few great yamadori, some higher end Juniper and other projects, that I DO NOT WANT TO KILL. Having these clearance, cheap junipers lets me practice my chops (on styling mostly), but also shows me what I can get away with and when and gets me to really focus on my after care.
Keep in mind that young nursery trade stock does NOT respond as old yamadori would. You can NOT get away with the same things.
 

Hartinez

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Keep in mind that young nursery trade stock does NOT respond as old yamadori would. You can NOT get away with the same things.
Well of course Jelle! That is part of the point of this thread. I’ve killed nicer trees from over working too much too soon, due to my overwhelming desire to try things out. So what better way to try things out, then by trying them on cheap nursery trade material. Rather than trying them out on my collected trees. I’ve got at least half a dozen trees that are just gaining steam on my benches. Collected trees that I’d like to see become something great in the next five years. Killing one of those, which I have, feels a lot worse then killing a $15 Sabina. A lot worse.
 

leatherback

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Well of course Jelle! That is part of the point of this thread. I’ve killed nicer trees from over working too much too soon, due to my overwhelming desire to try things out. So what better way to try things out, then by trying them on cheap nursery trade material. Rather than trying them out on my collected trees. I’ve got at least half a dozen trees that are just gaining steam on my benches. Collected trees that I’d like to see become something great in the next five years. Killing one of those, which I have, feels a lot worse then killing a $15 Sabina. A lot worse.
I think you are missing the point I try to make: Trying things out on nursery stock and then extrapolate this to yamadori, is going to get you into trouble :)
 

Hartinez

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I think you are missing the point I try to make: Trying things out on nursery stock and then extrapolate this to yamadori, is going to get you into trouble :)
I appreciate your concern Jelle! But You missed mine also! I have def got myself into trouble in the past. But I’m not going to aggressively repot a 200 year old juniper in late June that I’ve been carefully watering and babying for the last 2 years. It’s more the styling and design work that I’m working on. The wiring and layout of foliage etc. That’s why I said.

“Having these clearance, cheap junipers lets me practice my chops (on styling mostly),”


with that said though. I def think there is some info you can pull from the timing of the work that relates to a collected tree. Especially once it’s well established.
 

Hartinez

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What is it with keeping jins sooooooooooooo long?...All your trees would be better with more compact images. The jins are distracting.
That’s a faaaiiiiirrrrr assessment! Haha. For real though, your right, they are long. I’d prefer though, to start long then shorten, rather than go short than wish I had kept long. Especially once the foliage starts filling in. I like the look of jins extending out from the foliage pads.
 

Shibui

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1 - I personally feel that I dont see enough people willing to fully commit to a design on a nursery juniper that is clearly quite healthy. Wire and make mistakes. Look at pictures and go all in. Take chances with design and bending and wiring. If its a cheap juniper and you have 20, 30 plus other trees, than I think you’ve got house money.

2 - the other reason was this quote I read by @Smoke the other day that I liked. May be a little gruff to some, but i like the sentiment personally.

“Please help me understand what the problem is. For years I just did it. If it worked great, if it didn't I just threw it in the trash and moved on. Most times I always learned something sometimes positive, sometimes negative, but learned something never the less.

So what is the problem? I see only a couple reasons.

1. No confidence in ability
2. Just don't know how to start.
3. Only piece of material and can't afford to replace it right now if I screw up.

No. 3 I totally get. It's hard to experiment on a single piece of material and then finding a replacement may be hard or out of the budget.

No. 1 and 2, you have to break some eggs to make an omelet. Get busy!!!”
Totally agree. So many posts asking for advice before even investing any effort or thought.
Try something people.
Be happy to make mistakes and learn from them.

Comparing young nursery trees to old Yamadori may not have been appropriate but look at the intent of the post.
 
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