How big is too big?

[RichKid]

How tall can a tree be before it is no longer considered a bonsai?

 

[Jason]

A tree can be no more than exactly 79.2 cm to be a bonsai.

 

[geoff hobson]

The tree can be up to a metre, too big is when you can't carry it!!
I was at an auction and the tallest was I think 105 cm., because of the way it was styled this was fine, most of course are less than this, but I believe the term for the bigger ones is Emperor bonsai.
Geoff

 

[lordy]

depends on what you intend to do with the tree. Some shows limit the height to 1 meter, I think. If you only want to have it in your collection, then it is too big when you cannot repot as needed, or just move it around. Ideally you should rotate your trees periodically for even exposure to sunlight.

 

[Poink88]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pacifist/2512888082/
From the link.. "I think is about 5 meters of height and 8~10 meters of width... "

For me, too big is when my back says it is. Not much about height really...more about weight (again for me).

This is why Shohin is very popular among my fellow club members (I am old but one of the youngest).

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I don't think there is an 'official' limit when it comes to use of the term. If it is a tree in a pot, you can more or less call it bonsai. For bonsai shows, the local show committee sets the size limit, usually 3 feet.

In my mind, if you need a hoist to do the repotting, it is Newaki, not Bonsai. Of course from images I've seen from China and Viet Nam, when it comes to Penjing, the landscapes can get almost life size.

Personally, as others have said, my back tells me no bonsai should be bigger than shohin size. My largest tree is in a 14 x 18 inch pot, and I always need to give my back a week to recover after moving it around. I don't move it much. It gets rotated in place, but only gets moved twice a year. Its a ponderosa, so only gets repotted every 5 years or so. Really, anything to big to be easily lifted by 2 people is beyond 'bonsai'. But for institutional settings, like 'Jackie Gleason Dancing' at the National Arboretum, big is better. They have the space, the venue, of sufficient dimensions to display the tree properly.

That may be a good descriptor for how big is too big, when the tree is too large to fit into the display space(s) available, with appropriate negative space around the tree to show the tree off properly.

 

[GrimLore]

Just guessing on "average" anything over 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall should be considered Niwaki which are also an important part of large gardens. My Wife tends to like to have at least 4-5 large plants like that and honest they do accent the landscape a lot BUT they are a PAIN to move. They do play a part in the general Japanese garden so being Sculpted seems to be the only requirement for them. I suspect my friend Richard left the question a bit "open" because he did not refer to size for show or any specific applications

 

[rockm]

"Just guessing on "average" anything over 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall should be considered Niwaki"

Funny, I'd consider 2 1/2 to 3 to be just on the tall side of average. Many of mine average three feet tall...The majority of Japanese, Chinese and American bonsai in the National Arboretum collection are all well over two feet tall. The Japanese collection there, I'd say averages three feet plus. The American collection has trees that are over five feet tall.

 

[GrimLore]

"Just guessing on "average" anything over 2 1/2 to 3 feet tall should be considered Niwaki"

Funny, I'd consider 2 1/2 to 3 to be just on the tall side of average. Many of mine average three feet tall...The majority of Japanese, Chinese and American bonsai in the National Arboretum collection are all well over two feet tall. The Japanese collection there, I'd say averages three feet plus. The American collection has trees that are over five feet tall.

I understand that Public Displays almost always have larger trees but I do not recall seeing anything large in shows. Myself I consider any "simply" potted tree to be Bonsai but I do not concern myself with show regulations in regards to our trees

 

[Don Blackmond]

I don't know but I like big trees like this one. Close to 70" from the soil. Its a pain to move but I love it nonetheless....

 

[terry]

Don what a great cypress!

 

[rockm]

"I understand that Public Displays almost always have larger trees but I do not recall seeing anything large in shows"

The trees in the Arb's collection weren't created for public displays. All were privately owned at some point.

 

[Don Blackmond]

This one too. Its about 65" tall from the soil.

 

[lordy]

(I am old but one of the youngest).

How do you qualify as old when you have a child in first grade??

 

[Poink88]

How do you qualify as old when you have a child in first grade??

It doesn't matter...can't a guy father a child at 50, 60, or older?

I did mention earlier (couple of times) that I also have 21 and 25 year old children.

 

[lordy]

It doesn't matter...can't a guy father a child at 50, 60, or older?

I did mention earlier (couple of times) that I also have 21 and 25 year old children.

Sorry, but didnt see those posts. I dont search out all your posts as I have plenty of other things to do, just recall reading the one about the first grader, and it didnt add up.

 

[Poink88]

I understand that Public Displays almost always have larger trees but I do not recall seeing anything large in shows.

I've seen big ones on pics...most people probably avoid bringing the big ones just because it require so much more effort?

 

[RichKid]

I was just asking in general. Not really related to any shows or anything. I was just wondering if there was a point at which the seasoned enthusiast would say the tree is no longer a bonsai, it is just a tree in a pot. I've seen some trees in the wild that are stunted for their species but are still fairly large. There are a few oak trees, which can and often do exceed 100+ ft, in my neighbors hedge but they are only about 4.5-5 feet tall with great ramification and taper from years of being hedge trimmed. They have really thick bases etc. Beautiful, probably a pain to collect and heavy to move. The tree itself would be light work, but I could scarcely imagine the root ball you would have to take with it to ensure its survival. I'm not planning on asking to collect them, its just that after really being sucked into the hobby I'm not noticing things I've never noticed before and this was just one of those things. I can visualize it in a HUGE pot and it would be an awesome sight to behold, but I also asked myself would it even be a bonsai at that size, or just a tree in a pot.

 

[GrimLore]

Merriam Webster -

Definition of BONSAI
: a potted plant (as a tree) dwarfed (as by pruning) and trained to an artistic shape; also: the art of growing such a plant