how can this be.

[crust]

With all the promotion of mixes containing no humusy stuff I find it odd that one of the premier bonsai dudes in Europe promotes using a pretty fuzzy mix claiming having great success with it at his extensive nursery and amoungst his constituents---how can this be.
Kaizen Bonsai mix 2 for junis and decidious:

 

[Vance Wood]

With all the promotion of mixes containing no humusy stuff I find it odd that one of the premier bonsai dudes in Europe promotes using a pretty fuzzy mix claiming having great success with it at his extensive nursery and amoungst his constituents---how can this be.
Kaizen Bonsai mix 2 for junis and decidious:

Looks like Pumice, Granite grit and milled Pine Bark.

 

[milehigh_7]

looks exactly like mine

 

[Bonsai Nut]

It's all about the grit and the drainage, IMHO. I use a little organic in my mix, but I know some who swear by 100% pumice with nothing else. If you look at his mix, it will take a long time for that organic to break down and compact.

 

[Eric Group]

Al types of mixes can yield good results. Nothing wrong with a little "fuzz" in your mix. As long as you get good drainage and good enough air, you will probably have pretty happy trees.

 

[edprocoat]

I always use some organics in my Bonsai, as much as 40% for my tropicals as they like the moisture. Some times it bites me in the ass though like my Thuja, by the time I knew it was staying too wet it was already dead.

ed

 

[crust]

I always use some organics in my Bonsai, as much as 40% for my tropicals as they like the moisture. Some times it bites me in the ass though like my Thuja, by the time I knew it was staying too wet it was already dead.

ed

My experience is Thuja like a humusy mix though.

 

[milehigh_7]

I have to use a decent percentage of pretty good sized pine bark. Things dry out quick at 120F and 3% humidity. The trick is the fine balance between just damp enough and boiled. The rest of my mix is equal parts pumice and turface.

 

[Poink88]

looks exactly like mine

Close to mine too...I just use Turface, DE, and bark (sometimes Miracle Grow potting soil) and it works for me.

Of course many told me my trees will die in my mix...knock on wood but they are very healthy.

 

[Smoke]

15 years ago I was delivering 100 bags of soil a month to Matt Chroust, owner of Tree Bay, also owner/administrator of bonsaiTALK.

Tree Bay sold soil, tools and pots mail order. At the time I was using the precurser to Boon mix, 1/3 pumice, 1/3 lava and 1/3 akadama. I called it Keppler mix. Big deal lots of people in Cali used this mix for decades. It wasn't untill Study group that Boons soil even had a name.

My point was that while I used and promoted a soil with no organics in it, the stuff I was mixing and selling was one third scoria, one third lava and one third seedling orchid bark. Lots cheaper than akadama and no one complained. I think I delivered around a 1000 bags of the stuff to Matt.

What you use..and what you sell is sometimes very different.

 

[Anthony]

Hmm,

that naughty old organic again. Shameful.

3mm glass beads [ optimum example of the Ball Bearing fact] 70 % by volume, 30 % aged compost [ which decays to Humus [ humic acid other acids ] ] Tropical deciduous trees.

5mm silica based gravel to aged compost by volume [ as above or as high as 90 % to 10 % by volume aged compost ] grows everything like as we say - a beast. Ficus p.

Actually lightens the use of fertiliser in the wet season.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Vance Wood]

Close to mine too...I just use Turface, DE, and bark (sometimes Miracle Grow potting soil) and it works for me.

Of course many told me my trees will die in my mix...knock on wood but they are very healthy.

There are many, depending on who the many may be, that will tell you that unless you use the soil mix they use Western Civilization will collapse into chaos. JUST JOKING but just.

Regardless of the claims that are made for soil mixes according to who you talk to, your soil mix is wrong even though you can grow your trees in it and your trees do fine. If your soil mix is not the same as their soil mix it's wrong. You can recommend a soil mix that works for you in the area where you live. According to my standards it may be horrible but your stuff grows fine in it. Then of course it depends a lot on what you are growing in it.

The most important thing about soils is their durability. How long does it take to break down? If you have trees that need to live in a mix five to ten years a soil mix that breaks down in two years is probably not the best choice. If your experience is in growing Ficus and you are looking to cultivate Bristle Cone Pine you might have a problem with the same soil mix, mostly because it breaks down too fast, but there are other factors. Many of these factors are regional and closely related to the trees grown as has been pointed out. There is not one mix that suits all every where all the time and works for everybody on everything.

 

[Vance Wood]

Hmm,

that naughty old organic again. Shameful.

3mm glass beads [ optimum example of the Ball Bearing fact] 70 % by volume, 30 % aged compost [ which decays to Humus [ humic acid other acids ] ] Tropical deciduous trees.

5mm silica based gravel to aged compost by volume [ as above or as high as 90 % to 10 % by volume aged compost ] grows everything like as we say - a beast. Ficus p.

Actually lightens the use of fertiliser in the wet season.
Good Day
Anthony

This is very much as I have pointed out, you can grow a bonsai in almost anything as long as you know what to do and when to do it. However; if one considers the concept that a bonsai is meant to represent a full grown tree displayed in a container as growing on a hill side or in the woods. It this tree has a soil mix that, obvious on the surface, there are these glass balls it kind of destroys the image. That is another thing that really needs to be considered; what does it look like with a finished tree?

 

[KennedyMarx]

I thought he mentioned in one of his videos that he used Euro cat litter mixed with Akadama. I know Harry Harrington uses the kitty litter with bark. Their litter has larger particle size than what we have in the US. That fuzzy mix looks like bark with litter and pumice.

 

[jeremy_norbury]

I thought he mentioned in one of his videos that he used Euro cat litter mixed with Akadama. I know Harry Harrington uses the kitty litter with bark. Their litter has larger particle size than what we have in the US. That fuzzy mix looks like bark with litter and pumice.

The pink stuff in Graham's mix IS Diatomaceous earth cat litter.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbu...dxx-6qaP6q-8eXPeM-8eXPr4-8eXPkc-72Xo1A-7ycPpa

 

[Anthony]

No sweat Vance.

the Fustic is presently in a larger container with the same mix and has moss covering to both simulate our grasslands and to prevent watering from washing out the glass beads.
Please note this is a test and everyone else is in something more natural or acceptable, as clay is our most common soil.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Good Day
Anthony


* tree in a bigger pot.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Anthony,
I hope you don't mind the manner in which I referenced your work. If so, say the word and I'll make sure it doesn't make it to the newsletter. I was recently elected secretary for our local club which is ironic as all through school (with a solid B average) I never took notes. I thought I would open the can of vermi-compost and try a basic article on bonsai substrate.

-----
The key to a "modern" bonsai substrate is permeability for air and water, and that it must hold enough water to match the artists' watering routine and climate. Permeability is achieved through diligent sifting/and or sourcing to obtain proper particle size. Some have achieved great results using only course sand or only turface. I have heard of an experiment in the tropics where bonsai were successfully grown in a substrate of only marbles and compost. So when there is a will there is a way, just be sure your watering fits with your plant and soil. Also, join your local club so that you can see first hand what works for which species in your particular climate.
Lava, pumice and akadama(hard) are the preferred bonsai substrate ingredients but they, and akadama in particular, can be difficult to source for reasonable prices. Turface is widely available, in the states, and cheap but is falling out of favor due to the small particle size. Organic fertilizers and/or humus can "clog" the flow of water through materials like turface. But Turface is still good for mixing in with other leftover substrates for materials in the early stages of training ie. grow beds, flats or pond baskets.


A Basic Mix:
~1/3 lava
~1/3 akadama
~1/3 pumice
5-10% organic component of choice (I like sphagnum and vermi-compost)

Pumice - this stuff is awesome; it holds lots of air, lots of water, light weight when dry. Some use 100% pumice. There was a vendor at the last PBA show at the Arboretum that claimed the hottest soil mix out of Japan was a mix of three different types of pumice.
Akadama - naturally fired clay from Japan $$
Cali-dama - (I bought a bag off ebay from California.) similar to akadama in appearance but much harder. Geologically fired to a higher temperature

Drainage components
Lava or Scoria - nice and porous
expanded shale
Turkey grit
granite grit
chicken grit - make sure it is not made from oyster shells or it will throw off the PH
river sand - if you are careful, you can dig this out ready to use.. better to sift just in case.
builders sand - with all sand, be careful that it is not from the sea and that the particle size is larger. When in doubt, sift out the fines.
crushed brick
crushed terracotta
gravel - in a pinch (heavy)

Organic Components - Can hold too much water. High C.E.C. to spread out ferilizer.. Can hog and then dump Nitrogen
Spaghnum Moss
Peat Moss - avoid "potting soil" or black dust. Muck or Dust depending on moisture level
Compost - falling out of favor, but I think it has it's place as long as you use sparingly and your general particle size is large enough
Chopped pine or fir bark
Composted bark sifted

The amount of organic material is generally varied by species. During the hottest part of summer, many of my deciduous were wilting before I could get home to water them. I weeded the top portion of the affected plants very carefully and scraped out the top layer of soil. I mixed in some vermi-compost from my bin with the removed soil and refilled the top portion of the pot with good result. It held enough water and provided a boost of growth over what only chemical fertilizers were providing for me.

 

[Anthony]

Hello Mr.F.Pants,

nah, no sweat, happy if it helps.

Here's the kicker, the compost we use is aged for at least a year, after sifting from the compost heap. It is fine, as particle size goes.
Used at 30% to 10 % by volume.

However we have never had clogging or other problems. In fact after a year, especially if combined with peatmoss, the observation is the organics clump together as irregular shapes, often the size of the inorganic particles. Seen with trees that have acidic responses in soil, Tamarind, or Murraya p. for example.

We do sift and re-use old soil, adding back fresh inorganic and organic.

I do wonder, since our climate allows for extra activity, should we not hit problems faster?

In repotting the Texas Ebony, now about 33 years old, close to the core [ using the pie cuts ]
checking for a restart of a main tap root [ thankfully none ], the soil was mostly inorganic with a little organic , plus spaces.
AND this tree was grown in the time when up to 50% manure was the growing medium plus mostly crushed red brick [ checked the notes.]

I would however be afraid of non-composted material, especially at the core. Old gardener's information about excess nitrogen and all that.
We never had problems with soil mixes, so we never looked up the Nitrogen bit.

Isn't Cali-dama a nautural hard iron/clay pan, just broken up for use?
Good Day
Anthony

 

[fviljoen963]

Here, complete inorganic seems crazy hahaha

Hi- just thought Id add on for interest sake

In my club most use a granite grit (3-6mm in diameter) and (what looks exactly like) fine potting soil, 50:50

this is actually too dry and Ive potted some new yamadori in unwashed river sand , very fine cow manure powder almost, and fine compost in a 2:2:1 mix.
Basically all my maples I have in 100% manure and compost blends, and som in normal deep plastic pots (Palmatums)

I generally only water once a week (only home on weekends but optimally twice a week for the granite grit mixes and the rest very lightly the second time around

 

[Jester217300]

Well... most of us water daily. It's not that your region is too hot for inorganic soil, it's that you aren't able to water frequently enough to make inorganic soil viable.