My transition to bonsai started shorty after I began collecting Japanese maples about 2 yr ago. The shindeshejos I have been able to acquire from Evergreen are pencil thin (on three own roots). I was able to pick up a Beni maki (similar color to shin. D BUT ON the Orange s side of red) that was nicely grafted, however would eventually need yo be air layered. I was using this one posted today as practice because it is grafted but slightly larger than a pencil. In you're experience with air layering shin deshojo would you recommend putting them in the ground to protect them once separated. I'm interested in you theory you alluded to earlier. Here is a picture of the Beni M. I may air layer next year. I have been going back and forth between air layering and attempting to hide the graft by thread grafting at the graft site. I know this may not work but am tempted to take a short cut until I learn to air layer proficiently.I have a shin deshojo in my yard. I habitually air layer branches that would otherwise be pruned and tossed (I do think shin deshojo would make fabulous bonsai!) I don't have any particular problem growing roots, but after nearly 10 years at this game I've only have one shin deshojo layer that has survived the following season. Why continues to be an unresolved mystery, though I may have the diagnosis and solution to it. But this is aside from the point of this tread.
To the point, I agree with @sorce, there is little point in choosing that 'Y' other than you can cut one branch off and have the beginnings of a trunk that will eventually smoothly curve (which is good).
One can waste a season by wrapping a wire tourniquet around the stem and leaving it in place this season. It will produce a nice tapered swelling about the tourniquet. Then, spring 2019, remove the wire and cut the top of the girdle just above where the wire was and proceed making the air layer. All of this is a huge waste of time with any acer palmatum. All acer palmatum layers will make a flaring skirt within a few seasons of having been planted.
If one has the freedom to pick what they want to layer (as opposed to my self-imposed constraint), decide what your objective is. Shitty, boring, thin, straight-ish branches are great stuff for group/forest plantings - it helps if there is some variation in thicknesses. Branches that draw your interest because to the 'form' they have over a span of 18 to 24 inches are also good for this ilk of bonsai (rule of thumb, if they are shitty for bonsai, they are good for group/forest plantings).
On the other hand, if you want to make a single stem bonsai, look for a very curvy (but not right angle bends!) heavy one. Just consider the 6 to 12 inch stem section with no regard for what else is happening, because you will cut if off everything else long before this stem section is the trunk of your fabulous (shin deshojo) bonsai. As @sorce has said, an air-layer really just gives one a head start on producing the lowest segment of the trunk. Its a hard lessen that took me the better part of a decade to appreciate.
Sorry, I've got to go now.
Its time to cut a few more girdles on my shin deshojo.
btw. I cut the girdles today. I'll just leave them 'dangling naked in the air' until next weekend. Then I'll bag some damp sphagnum over the them and wait for August to roll around. I'd like to use my favorite bonsai substrate instead of sphagnum, but these are basically horizontal branches I'm layering. In this circumstance it is way too complicated.
Yes I've seen your threads on the Radialdisc. This is a great idea. I was going to use this plumbers putty for the cone. I've seen someone use a coffee can lid with the some purpose. I plan on using these idea as long as I'm not violating any copy right laws. I like the Idea of using fine pumice and lava in a split pot. I crazy glued some upside down bottle caps to the bottom of my pot. To retain humidity. Still trying to think of a trademark name. Root beer cap pot sound ok?https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/radialayer™-a-season-saver.17046/
More Important than the only good way to make an airlayer, unless you are going for exposed root, or root over rock material...
Is choosing a good place to put it...
For me, while I admittedly don't really understand the pic....
There's nothing worth layering there unless you are layering for layering practice sake, or to propogate long term projects.
Seems the intended spot will be a scarry mess, with possible buds left to grow that would only enhace scarry messiness with inevitable future moves.
You just posted again....I went off on a tangent that has sealed my determination to write a book in a PM ....
Anyway...second post sounds like you are thinking so lets continue this discussion....
More pics?
Sorce
Nope. Grow the layers in pots (or boxes) of substrate. Ground growing will produce a few heavy roots and you'll later have to work them back. They grow well in pots.In you're experience with air layering shin deshojo would you recommend putting them in the ground to protect them once separated. I'm interested in you theory you alluded to earlier.
What happened?Johnny D... Youre in it!
All that's left is the winning!
Sorcee
No.Ever use a systemic?
Lower may be better. There are three small branches below the y.https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/radialayer™-a-season-saver.17046/
More Important than the only good way to make an airlayer, unless you are going for exposed root, or root over rock material...
Is choosing a good place to put it...
For me, while I admittedly don't really understand the pic....
There's nothing worth layering there unless you are layering for layering practice sake, or to propogate long term projects.
Seems the intended spot will be a scarry mess, with possible buds left to grow that would only enhace scarry messiness with inevitable future moves.
You just posted again....I went off on a tangent that has sealed my determination to write a book in a PM ....
Anyway...second post sounds like you are thinking so lets continue this discussion....
More pics?
Sorce
What happened?
Thank you! I see what you are talking about now.Is that the graft right below?
For me in this state.
Its faster to make a tree/ more profitable to propagate/....
It makes more sense to layer a tippy tip. As the difference in quality of start is so equal.
That way you still have a grafted root base to push strong other growth.
Where of you layer low, and remove the good grafted roots, you still have to remove everything else above it, and of you aim to propgate it, you should have done that first.
In the mean time.
That place where that fork is.....
View attachment 183057
The long sections will forever be useless accept as sacrifice.
Once cut to the yellow, that entire area become useless. Useless in that the years it will take to bother to grow are slayed by your ability to get a better start free from a bonsai friend.
I think I dismissed maples layering where there is no node because a wider base is always achievable elsewhere...it just happens that yours isn't offering that wider base safe yet. (Keep growing it!)
But if you can layer it at the green....
That is your best start for, what is arguably one of the worst trees! A Pine maple! Lol!
But that is your best start for a traditional J maple.
My preffered....and why I knock opposite buds off like Mobsters knock off snitches...
Had that tree been allowed a middle extension, and ONE side extension...aka...if one of the opposite buds were rubbed off before that useless shit grew.
This material would be better in that area for...
1. A naturalistic maple that won't get Reverse taper.
2. Softer branch angles if it we're a branch.
3 a better layer opportunity
Resorce
Therefore....there is never a good reason to leave opposite buds to grow. Except for beyond a place you know you will cut back before, and never need to keep for anything.
Sorce
Therefore....there is never a good reason to leave opposite buds to grow. Except for beyond a place you know you will cut back before, and never need to keep for anything.