How do I Air layer at a Y? A.P. Shindeshejo.

[Johnnyd]

I have a similar problem with my Deshojo maple, so maybe is better to post here than to start a new thread.
Couldn't find anything locally, so I had to buy it online from a nursery in France. "The trunk" is pencil thick and it has a horrible graft. It has lot of brances, but all of them are straight and thick as a matchstick or thinner. Distance between nodes is on average 5 centimeters (2 inches). Branches are emerging in groups the trunk, 4-5 even 6 from a single place.
I repoted it a week ago, after receiving it, in a colander using pumice and coco fiber (80/20) as substrate, it was in a very small plastic container with organic soil. It wasn't in great shape when it came, but now I see new leaves on some branches, so I think it is doing well.
I know I have to let it grow and I am not in a hurry. Growing in the ground is not an option unfortunately but I plan to put it in an airpot as big as possible when the time comes and it will be grown on the terrace. At a later date I want to air layer a branch and grow it on a tile.
Question is: should I choose a branch for future trunk next season and wire it (next season), to put some movement on it? At the moment all branches are straight as an arrow.Would it be a good idea to pinch the growth on the chosen branch for a few seasons, to insure the future trunk will have short internodes?
Should I cut some branches where there are too many emerging from the same spot? For now I think is better to leave it as it is, allowing the tree to grow and strengthen without additional stress, but I am not sure what to do in the winter.
Regarding the air layering, even if I'm not in a hurry I think it will be better sooner than later, because it will allow more time for root development. How thick should be a branch before attempting the layering?
Many thanks!

They are very finicky cultivar. I used bonsai soil in a rooter pot to air layer 2 months ago. Still no roots. Maybe they are just on a different timeline than I. Luckily I hedged my bets and bought two very thin shin deshojo from Evergreen gardens (cuttings grown). I'm pretty sure he uses a misting system and greenhouse. Even with Brent's expertise they did not have many roots. I put them in the ground in early spring with some wiring. I have a feeling they will trunk up before my airlayer does. I wish I could find a source for shin deshojo that are field grown in the US. I've found an old thread previously of a nursery in California that sold decent caliper trucks. But they were sold out last time I checked. They are spectacular cultivar for sure!
On the subject of thickness I would guess about 1/2 inch would be safe. If you only have access to thin material it would be a nice opportunity to twist them up. Graham Potter has a nice video on YouTube where he puts wire on seedlings. Be warned maples may be more brittle. Good luck Chrisian!

 

[Cristian D.]

Thanks Johnny!

 

[Cristian D.]

Hi all,
Or you can try rooting Shindeshojo cuttings as semi-hardwood throughout season with 1% IBA with mist etc.
I have a few cuttings rooted now to try my hand with, and going to try more the next season - winter here in NZ so yeah, as my Shindeshojo airlayers were all failures.
Only got to wait 20 years to show my efforts lol
Charles

Thanks for the ideea.
I wasn't able to find a source for cuttings yet, but I just joined a small bonsai club and maybe I'll have some luck in the future.
Today I also heard about a nursery not very far that could have some red japanese maples, I will go and check what they have.

 

[cbroad]

@Johnnyd
For what it's worth, here's one I did a year or two ago, not a shin deshojo, but it came off a landscape tree. My idea is to develop a twin trunk eventually.




I made the girdle right below the split. I'm going to work the two bigger branches, the other smaller ones are sacrifices.

 

[Cristian D.]

I also wanted to do (in the future) a multi trunk maple, but starting with three different plants, like this http://bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATdevelopingclumpformbonsai.htm

 

[Johnnyd]

@Johnnyd
For what it's worth, here's one I did a year or two ago, not a shin deshojo, but it came off a landscape tree. My idea is to develop a twin trunk eventually.

View attachment 201454
View attachment 201455

I made the girdle right below the split. I'm going to work the two bigger branches, the other smaller ones are sacrifices.

Thanks for sharing CB. Looks great! What substrate did you use for your layer?

 

[cbroad]

What substrate did you use for your layer?

I used just straight chopped up sphagnum in bag on that JM. I've used straight potting soil on an elm, and just recently started some using chopped sphagnum and perlite (50/50 or maybe a little more perlite).

I would like to try using the split pot with bonsai soil technique but I know I couldn't keep up with the watering. @just.wing.it has a good idea about doing it this way, he adds a layer of sphagnum on the bottom and on top of the bonsai soil in the pot, and I think he puts a bag over the pot too ?

I'll post pics of it post severing in a little bit, I have to find them, I think they're on my computer or on my tablet.

 

[Johnnyd]

I also wanted to do (in the future) a multi trunk maple, but starting with three different plants, like this http://bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATdevelopingclumpformbonsai.htm

I would like to try this with a Trident or Amur maple. Looks like a fun project. I think Peter Adams gives a nice walkthrough of this in his Japanese maples book. I'm not sure if it would be easy with shindeshojo.

 

[cbroad]

I would like to try this with a Trident or Amur maple

I obviously have a thing for multi trunks here's an amur I did last summer:


And before being repotted in a squat 5gal pot about 2 weeks ago:

 

[Johnnyd]

I obviously have a thing for multi trunks here's an amur I did last summer:
View attachment 201475

And before being repotted in a squat 5gal pot about 2 weeks ago:

View attachment 201476

Nice tree! That will keep you busy. Amur and Trident are both vigorous but for me I prefer the bark on the Amur. How many weeks did it take?

 

[cbroad]

Here's the JM air layer before being potted up:





I remember when making this one and the amur, about where I wanted the roots to exit the trunks. On the amur, I cut it really close to where the trunks start to branch, but on the JM I left about an inch of a single trunk.

In nature, I've seen mature trees that are mostly multi trunk but have a few feet of single trunk from the ground up and they obtain kind of like an hour glass figure, and I really like that look. I personally wouldn't mind a little reverse taper in mine as the 2 trunks thicken and spread away from each other. Maybe they'll look funny when they thicken up, but I think I'll like it!

 

[cbroad]

How many weeks did it take?

I had the exact dates written on an old phone, but it was probably around 6 weeks from initiating the layer to potting up, not very long at all.

 

[Johnnyd]

I had the exact dates written on an old phone, but it was probably around 6 weeks from initiating the layer to potting up, not very long at all.

I think one of my challenges is that I prefer the dwarf and red cultivars. This Beni Maiko has been air layered similarly with a collinder (Pumice filled and topped with chopped sphagnum, after pic) . I've got roots just poking out , more like white bumps. I know you should separate at the end of summer. Still have time. Our first day of frost is usually October 7.
Going to practice patience. Lol

 

[cbroad]

I had the exact dates written on an old phone

I transferred the notes to my new phone! I started it on 6/28/17 and potted it up on 8/3/17

 

[Johnnyd]

I transferred the notes to my new phone! I started it on 6/28/17 and potted it up on 8/3/17

If my present air layer attempts fail I may give up on my fancy cultivar snobbery. At least with regard to playing nurserymen. I may just need dust the cob webs off my wallet and shell out some real money for a trunked up Shin deshojo.

 

[Johnnyd]

Nope. Grow the layers in pots (or boxes) of substrate. Ground growing will produce a few heavy roots and you'll later have to work them back. They grow well in pots.

For years my landscape specimen's first spring leaves gets blackened edges. It tends to be a little breezy here in early spring, so I've always waved it off a wind burn as it later shed these leaves, put out a new flush, and grew vigorously thereafter. Meanwhile, my air layers from the previous season would leaf out and suddenly collapse. Roots were healthy.

So last year I put together a group planting of 6 layers from 2016 arrayed around the big survivor layer from 2015. The group leafs out and I see some 'wind burned leaves' like on the mother tree. "Huh" I say to myself, "there's no wind here; definitely not wind burn". I have a couple more 2016 layers in pots elsewhere - they too have 'the windburn'. My cogs slowly turned and after a shameful delay I decide that I've been really stupid for having not been spraying peroxide solution. Then I slowly got out of my chair and did it everyday for a while. The big 2015 survivor is alive and responded like the big landscape specimen. All the rest are dead but for one of the other, separate 2016 layers which has a few buds this spring.

So, I'm thinking it is a fungal/bacterial issue. I've seen the same on Ukigumo a couple of times, but no other Japanese maple in my collections. I've got 2 new layers from last year and I've started spraying even though the buds, while bright red, haven't yet broken. I may spray peroxide solution every day, its cheap and eco-friendly. It remains to be seen if I will have 4 living layers or more dead ones again.

Would it be safe to spray that diluted peroxide solution into the air layer pot. I know there was something mentioned about the cambium being clogged.
Also another idea for increased success ; could using a garden filter to eliminate chlorine strengthen the roots? Maybe the chlorine is eliminating an important element in the layer.

 

[0soyoung]

Would it be safe to spray that diluted peroxide solution into the air layer pot.

Yes. It is a good root drench for root rot and also used as a root dip by many commercial growers when repotting seedlings and rooted cuttings.

Also another idea for increased success ; could using a garden filter to eliminate chlorine strengthen the roots? Maybe the chlorine is eliminating an important element in the layer.

It is a thought, but one that is hard for me to give credence. My shin deshojo layers, over the years, have been harvested and potted in August. They do swimmingly through leaf drop, watered with the same water from my garden hose. The following spring, they collapse - all but one. I live in a fairly rainy climate and the layers are exposed to rain water, almost exclusively, during the winter. So maybe it is the lack of chlorine and I should water all winter long? Sorry, but I think this line of thinking is grasping at straws in my case.