How do know if I can trust my local bonsai nursery?

[JackHammer]

I have a bonsai nursery close to me but I don't know if I can trust them for expertise or trees. They have a few trees that seem very expensive for what they are as well as a boat load of mini jade that are clearly there as quick sellers. They seem to be knowledgeable and helpful but I don't know where the consumer traps are. What should I be on the lookout for when finding good help? And, what are common consumer traps I should look for when purchasing a tree?

 

[caffeinated]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say, if they seem knowledgeable and helpful, trust them. You can always ask around if you want to double check their advice or prices. If you eventually find reason not to trust them, then stop. They'll probably always have some overpriced stuff, and maybe some bargains?

If you're looking for consumer traps you're going to find them, whether they're actually there or not. I had a construction client that was sure everyone was out to overcharge her and in her mind, every receipt / invoice I showed her had evidence of it. She would find exactly what she was looking for and I quit trying to help her. I certainly wasn't trying to pull one over on her.

 

[ShadyStump]

If it's not obvious, chances are it's not there, at least not intentionally.
There are no bonsai specific places anything less than an hour's drive from me, but you can generally lump any mom and pop small business in with the others for some practices.

Some stuff might seem overpriced, and it may very well be. Smaller business need to make a higher profit margin because they don't have the market share to make money on volume. We can choose to pass them up because of it, or support them over, say, Brussels.
If you don't want it, don't buy it. Same rule as any retailer. Someone might get pushy about making a sale, even to the point of being less than honest. You catch them doing that, they don't need your return business.
The add-ons are where they get you. When you walk in the door, you're either just looking, or there for something very specific. Otherwise you walk out broke.

Just look for the same sorts of things you would at any story, just in bonsai form.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Always ask for better price. If quickly rebuffed move on.

 

[leatherback]

I have a bonsai nursery close to me but I don't know if I can trust them for expertise or trees. They have a few trees that seem very expensive for what they are as well as a boat load of mini jade that are clearly there as quick sellers. They seem to be knowledgeable and helpful but I don't know where the consumer traps are. What should I be on the lookout for when finding good help? And, what are common consumer traps I should look for when purchasing a tree?

If you hope they can advice you on your trees and care / maintenance, check whether they have trees that are well-cared for and healthy. Also, ask a few things where you know what the best route (and its alternatives) are to see what they say.

Check their trees. Is they have trees that are not for sale, but their own collection, that is a positive. If they have trees that have been there for > a year, and are well maintained and healthy that is a positive.

Bad: If only an import/sale kind of place, which you can spot that trees that have been there for longer have missing limbs, dead sections and in general give an unhealthy impression.

 

[ShimpakuBonsai]

Maybe you can mention the name of the nursery and local member know the place and can say something about it.

 

[rockm]

I agree with the thought that if they have THEIR OWN trees it's a really good sign, also if they have a variety of species of trees, beyond junipers, chinese elms, ficus and jade trees. If they're active in local clubs it's another good sign--many sellers are because it's an obvious way to access potential customers. Do a search on the names of the owners with "bonsai" and see what comes up.

 

[Colorado]

As stated above, just look at their trees. Do they have trees that you admire?

The proof is in the pudding!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Do the owners exhibit at major shows? Have they won awards? Do they go to nationals? That is a "sign" that they might have both skill and commitment.

However there is something underlying your comment - something that concerns honesty and trustworthiness. You can be honest without going to a national show, and dishonest if you do. The only way to know is to start small and see how they treat you. As far as prices go, they are going to be all over the map. People on this site regularly post trees and ask "is this worth $$$$"? Read some of those discussions because you will quickly realize that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you are really worried about a decision on a tree, post it here before you buy, or make friends at a bonsai club and ask a more experienced member for unbiased opinions/help.

 

[chicago1980]

Always ask for better price. If quickly rebuffed move on.

Please explain this strategy? I am interested in understanding. Thank you

 

[Mike Corazzi]

I would avoid the roadside ones selling out of a trailer.

 

[chicago1980]

I would avoid the roadside ones selling out of a trailer.

Dang there goes my business plan

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Wait.. You guys don't try the secret bonsai handshake at nurseries?!

 

[penumbra]

Always ask for better price. If quickly rebuffed move on

Please explain this strategy? I am interested in understanding. Thank you

This is a terrible strategy that means nothing and can be very off putting and offensive. If I am looking for a better price the first thing I do is complement the piece and acknowledge that is is worth the asking price, recognizing the work that went into it. Then I simply state that XXX is all I am prepared to spend at this point. If it is not worth the asking price, there is not much reason to be looking.
If you want to buy, you have to understand selling.

 

[ShadyStump]

I would avoid the roadside ones selling out of a trailer.

But the ones selling out of a white van are ok.
They're legit.

 

[rockm]

This is a terrible strategy that means nothing and can be very off putting and offensive. If I am looking for a better price the first thing I do is complement the piece and acknowledge that is is worth the asking price, recognizing the work that went into it. Then I simply state that XXX is all I am prepared to spend at this point. If it is not worth the asking price, there is not much reason to be looking.
If you want to buy, you have to understand selling.

I'd agree. This approach can make you a real pain in the ass to deal with. The first interaction with a seller should not be the "you're trying to rip me off" implicit in asking "what's your best price." The seller may come down, but believe me, you're not setting yourself up well if you want to continue to deal with them-and they're honest sellers.

Don't like the price? Don't buy it. Walking away politely is the best negotiating tactic--don't get all "Ima walk if you don't give me a break."

 

[Mike Corazzi]

But the ones selling out of a white van are ok.
They're legit.

Only if they have junipers!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

This is a terrible strategy that means nothing and can be very off putting and offensive. If I am looking for a better price the first thing I do is complement the piece and acknowledge that is is worth the asking price, recognizing the work that went into it. Then I simply state that XXX is all I am prepared to spend at this point. If it is not worth the asking price, there is not much reason to be looking.
If you want to buy, you have to understand selling.

Yes. I only very rarely ask for discounts, and it is usually when I buy a big quantity of something - i.e. "what price can you give me if I buy a pallet". Otherwise, I form a relationship with someone first, as a good customer, and then I might ask for a special price on a large purchase... but am not offended if they say "no". It usually goes the other way many times. For example I might be looking at pots, and the seller knows me, and they might offer a special price if I purchase several pots at once, etc.

This may sound cheesy, but the entire purpose of this site is to support the art of bonsai. Part of "support" means - help nurseries and retailers grow their businesses profitably. More businesses = more selection. More scale = lower prices overall. It would be counter-productive if I tried to get people to open bonsai nurseries... and then asked them to sell their product to me at cost However if I see a price that I think is outside of my budget, it is easy enough for me to offer the price at which I would be willing to buy, and the retailer can take it or not. No hard feelings either way.

 

[Kanorin]

If you're looking for a really great deal on a tree - a tree with a 2.5 inch trunk on clearance for 19.99 or something - that you can work on and turn into a bonsai subject over ~10 years, I don't think you are likely to find that at a specialty bonsai nursery. Check your local Mom and Pop type nurseries and seek out those trees with funky trunks that nobody else wants to buy.

But if you are looking for a tree that's already had some structural work done to it and maybe already has good trunk taper, or a nice basal root flare, and already has branches in the right places...these are the types of trees that are worth quite a bit more money. They are worth more money because they will save you time and effort.

If you are pretty new to bonsai, I would encourage you to get a few trees from category A (nursery stock that you can work on turning into bonsai), and one or two from category B (bonsai or pre-bonsai where some of the setup and branch placement work is already done for you). Then you can learn a more full spectrum of skills in your first few years.

 

[ShadyStump]

This approach can make you a real pain in the ass to deal with.

Remember who suggested it.
Just sayin'. I like @Potawatomi13 well enough, but I don't think even he can argue that he's not a pain in the ass.

I will argue, though (just playing devil's advocate here) that there's nothing inherently wrong with trying to negotiate a little, but you have to do it with tact. It shouldn't be the 1st thing out of your mouth, and certainly don't start with anything accusational.
10 minutes into the conversation, politely say it's a little out of your price range and asking what they can do for you isn't being a pain in the ass in my opinion. At least as long as you're accepting of the answer.