Smoke
Ignore-Amus
In the white pine thread Chris V. had mentioned that the only way to increase size was thru height. Dario disagreed. He said that a lush branch with leaves (needles) will do the same thing. He also mentioned lanky branches being of no use and how lush branches are better.
What does he base this on?
Experience? Over how many years and how many species.
In my experience, over many years, sacrifice branches have been used as the most reliable and fastest method for growing out trunks. Also in my experience, using sacrifice branches, deciduous trees and conifers respond equally as well to this method. As to lanky growth, all professional growers and even non professional growers like me remove all the leaves or needles from the sacrifice branch leaving only the apical growth on the branch to do the work for the next season.
It is increased length (height) that produces more wood in the trunk and this is achieved faster if all the side leaves are removed so that the sacrifice will focus all its energy into elongation rather than branching. Keeping a branch "lush" is not the same thing as unrestricted elongation in a branch when growing wood for a trunk.
When I grew out the three little pigs from one inch to four inches, I did that thru unrestrained growth reaching 10 feet in height before cutting back the following spring.
So on a discussion forum such as this people here have to determine if the things they read here are based on experience, and experience with the species noted, or are they regurgitateing something they read on the latest and greatest blog from Herkimer P. Farquot III.
I still maintain that a good discussion forum should require pictures of past work and success with the species before one opens their mouth. It does no one any good here to just post opinions without substantial backup to ones claims. I think Vance is trying to say that but somehow it is lost in the translation.
Lately I have seen a huge influx of people here new and old asking for the shortest path to making bonsai. I have no problem with that if the person doing the asking is well versed in the basics and is not asking how to do trunk chops when they have not even been doing bonsai long enough to have even gone thru a repotting season yet.
I still feel the best way to learn bonsai its to do bonsai. This means that one will have the money to spend on trees and allow them to be expendable. No one is buying the ten nana junipers and styling them anymore. No one is learning the basics of wireing and how to bend branches with pliers. No one is learning how important the use of wire is and how that simple task is probably the most important task in bonsai there is.
It seems we all just want to skip the basics and get right to the advanced technique, try it and then somehow one is magically transformed into a bonsai authority.
Sorry, it just don't work that way.....
You become an authority when you can explain to someone how to do something and show documentation on how that work resulted for you. How sothing worked over a period of years like soil, pond baskets, growing trunks, building branches and taking a tree from cutting to showable bonsai over a number of years. This is the way it is done in Japan and why it works so well is because the nursery provising the training has great trees and many of them in all stages of production and the ability to see how that works over periods of time. Apprentices are able to compress fifty years of experience into four or five years if done correctly and the teacher is good.
Apprentices in any field of training from guitar and piano to painting and sculpture benefit from the teacher and that persons ability to explain what happens in any given moment in your teaching. The piano teacher will be able to sit beside you and "SHOW" you exactly what practise can do for you. The ability to learn is only governed by ones attitude towards listening.
What does he base this on?
Experience? Over how many years and how many species.
In my experience, over many years, sacrifice branches have been used as the most reliable and fastest method for growing out trunks. Also in my experience, using sacrifice branches, deciduous trees and conifers respond equally as well to this method. As to lanky growth, all professional growers and even non professional growers like me remove all the leaves or needles from the sacrifice branch leaving only the apical growth on the branch to do the work for the next season.
It is increased length (height) that produces more wood in the trunk and this is achieved faster if all the side leaves are removed so that the sacrifice will focus all its energy into elongation rather than branching. Keeping a branch "lush" is not the same thing as unrestricted elongation in a branch when growing wood for a trunk.
When I grew out the three little pigs from one inch to four inches, I did that thru unrestrained growth reaching 10 feet in height before cutting back the following spring.
So on a discussion forum such as this people here have to determine if the things they read here are based on experience, and experience with the species noted, or are they regurgitateing something they read on the latest and greatest blog from Herkimer P. Farquot III.
I still maintain that a good discussion forum should require pictures of past work and success with the species before one opens their mouth. It does no one any good here to just post opinions without substantial backup to ones claims. I think Vance is trying to say that but somehow it is lost in the translation.
Lately I have seen a huge influx of people here new and old asking for the shortest path to making bonsai. I have no problem with that if the person doing the asking is well versed in the basics and is not asking how to do trunk chops when they have not even been doing bonsai long enough to have even gone thru a repotting season yet.
I still feel the best way to learn bonsai its to do bonsai. This means that one will have the money to spend on trees and allow them to be expendable. No one is buying the ten nana junipers and styling them anymore. No one is learning the basics of wireing and how to bend branches with pliers. No one is learning how important the use of wire is and how that simple task is probably the most important task in bonsai there is.
It seems we all just want to skip the basics and get right to the advanced technique, try it and then somehow one is magically transformed into a bonsai authority.
Sorry, it just don't work that way.....
You become an authority when you can explain to someone how to do something and show documentation on how that work resulted for you. How sothing worked over a period of years like soil, pond baskets, growing trunks, building branches and taking a tree from cutting to showable bonsai over a number of years. This is the way it is done in Japan and why it works so well is because the nursery provising the training has great trees and many of them in all stages of production and the ability to see how that works over periods of time. Apprentices are able to compress fifty years of experience into four or five years if done correctly and the teacher is good.
Apprentices in any field of training from guitar and piano to painting and sculpture benefit from the teacher and that persons ability to explain what happens in any given moment in your teaching. The piano teacher will be able to sit beside you and "SHOW" you exactly what practise can do for you. The ability to learn is only governed by ones attitude towards listening.
