How far are you willing to go?

[Smoke]

In another thread about Muranaka, this was said in response about doing layers on material a waste of time since I could jusy go buy what I want.

People such as me have time but have little access to material at all, let alone good material.
On the other side, people like you seem to have less time but access to tons of good material.

I wonder sometimes how people think I get my material? Yes it is true that there is a bonsai nursery in the town in which I live. It is less than half a mile from my house but no, I rarely buy material there. I do buy wire, pots, jin fluid, tools and stuff like that, dry goods. If I wish to buy a new piece of material I have several ways to do that.

• I can drive to Ed Clarks house 126 miles RT (round trip)
• I can drive to Muranakas house 336 miles RT
• Murayama Bonsai 332 miles RT
• House of Bonsai 448 miles RT

These are not short trips for me. Each year we have the bonsai swapmeet which is almost in my backyard. I can purchase something someone else worked on and possibly hacked to death or sometimes there is a diamond in the rough.

If I want to buy quality pots I have to go to a convention. I live in the central valley. The GSBF conventions alternate years between the southern half of the state and the northern half of the state. Since California is about 900 miles long, this makes sense. For me the convention is always about 450 miles round trip yearly to buy a pot.
To buy the materials I wish to make soil from, I get mine at Murayama's in Sacramento Ca. I also buy the akadama and assorted dry goods he may sell. He does carry Chinese pots and occasionally Tokoname pots but he does not always have what I am looking for.

I make these trips when I need to. I drive to the coast at least monthly just to get away from the stinking heat. I can arrange to meet George at the nursery prior to going, which I have done many times. The person above that made the quote hails from North Carolina. A google search gave me these establishments in which this person could find material I'm sure. So when I hear about all this talk about how much material there is in California remember this is a large state and we all can't live in the bonsai metropolisis, me included. I am willing to make the journeys to make my life easier.

Silver Bonsai Gallery
www.silverbonsai.com
905 US-64
Manteo, NC
(252) 475-1413

Bonsai Learning Center
www.bonsailearningcenter.com

142 Hidden Harbor Road
Mooresville, NC
(888) 216-6327

Tree of Life Bonsai
Wilmington, NC
(910) 599-0355

Plant City Bonsai & Herb Nursery
www.plantcitybonsai.com
5607 Cleveland Hwy
Clermont, GA
(770) 983-3377

So how many miles are you willing to drive to buy materials? How many miles will you drive to see a show or convention? I go to at least 6 exhibits a year that routinely require 7 or 8 hours driving just for a day trip. I'm afraid if a person wants to do bonsai at a high level, with good soil and good pots and start with good material. one will have to make an investment in the amount of time and miles you wish to put in your hobby. If you are not willing to do that, then don't blame crappy trees on the fact you can't get good material., it just may be a 400 mile day trip away!

What say you?

 

[KennedyMarx]

I was driving a four hour round trip for a two hour monthly club meeting. The same trip for access to akadama and material started specifically for bonsai. Thing is the guy is charging out the wazoo compared to the prices you've listed you pay ($50 vs $20 per bag of Akadama). I think the thing that irks me about the situation is all the management in my club have their own bonsai businesses, so the club doesn't buy things in bulk so the members can get cheap prices on materials like I've read some clubs doing.

 

[Nybonsai12]

Here by me there are not a great deal of nurseries. There is one I can get to in 20 minutes here on the island, it's small and decent prices but not entirely bonsai specific and after one or two trips you will have seen all there is to offer. Even so I'm thankful to have it. Natures way is a good 8 hour round trip from me, I think, but have never been. There are also one or two in jersey that I recall hearing names mentioned once or twice, that I can't think of now. New England bonsai is another full day trip, good stock, expensive. I did MABS last year and will again this year, takes a bunch of planning for me, but I'll do it.

For my own reasons, I don't have full days to devote to travelling for bonsai. Some day maybe but not now. But with that said, I try to make up for that and make every effort to seek out quality vendors who ship as I am usually looking for something specific. Wire from Julian adams, interesting stuff to grow out from Brent, even called muranakas nursery and begged him to sell me something to which he said no but would keep me in mind when listing a new crop on eBay. He did, I nabbed it. Soil components, I started using things available locally, but ended up going the online vendor route again after becoming frustrated. Glad I did. Pots are pretty much exclusively online as well although my former club had good stuff at the two annual auctions. i have to pay to get what I want and that I guess is the price for not having as much time. At least I have no excuses for crappy trees other than my own inabilities.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Well...I don't travel well to say the least. So I will never sadly get to the point others do with what they see. But...I can call Steve with Plant City and he has hooked me up twice with great material. That's what I have to work with. Though...I learned of a bonsai nursery that is driving distance. Just over an hour to get there. That is quite doable. Though...it's by appointment. Which is also doable. I plan on going there this spring...to just have that opportunity of saying I was at a bonsai nursery. Having the experience...I don't think he does many tropicals...but that's okay. I'm looking for zone friendly at this time. But I most likely won't go far. Though...I have in the back of my mind...a road trip to see my brother...and seeing Judy's trees while I'm at it.

 

[JoeR]

I wasn't saying there is no material to be found here. You misinterpreted what I said. But alas, you must make a thread about it anyway because you were upset and it ruffled your feathers.

Its not that I am unwilling to devote to bonsai. If I could I really would.

Not everybody has all this money to devote to this hobby.

Not everybody has time to take a 400 mile trip to a bonsai nursery.

People have jobs, family and other more significant things in our life.

Does that mean I am not dedicated to this hobby? Certainly not. I still have a passion for this hobby and still want to continue doing it and grow as an artist.

By lack of good material I didn't mean there was none to be found here. I meant I don't have resources (time/money) to go out and make a collection trip or a round trip to a bonsai nursery. Does that mean I should just give up this hobby then? Does that mean I should be content with my 'crappy trees' and not do bonsai on a 'high level'?

I wasn't 'blaming' my lack of material on anyone. I was simply stating my point of view and my situation. I'm young and I am willing to spend the extra time and effort to make 'crappy trees' valuable. I see nothing wrong with being frugal and conservative with your trees and resources.

I didn't mean to insult you with that post, and I don't mean to insult you with this one. Just defending me and others alike. You are obviously a talented artist and you gladly share your time on this site, which I am thankful for.

 

[Anthony]

Well, Al,

we spend one day at the brick factory in the crushing shed, sifting out the size of brick we use.

Use to have to buy a yard or two of crushed gravel and then sift again.

Open the compost heap, and sift again, leave to age for a year.

Dig clay, refine it, mix it, make the pots, glaze or not, fire for x hours.

No real Bonsai club, not enough money for foriegn teachers, so books and when lucky visits abroad to Bonsai nurseries.

Seeds and cuttings, rarely old beaten up plants in nurseries [ very rare ] and drains.

You adapt and manage, and oh yes, the refrigerator for 2 and a half months a year.
Mostly you just do for yourself.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[JoeR]

Well, Al,

we spend one day at the brick factory in the crushing shed, sifting out the size of brick we use.

Use to have to buy a yard or two of crushed gravel and then sift again.

Open the compost heap, and sift again, leave to age for a year.

Dig clay, refine it, mix it, make the pots, glaze or not, fire for x hours.

No real Bonsai club, not enough money for foriegn teachers, so books and when lucky visits abroad to Bonsai nurseries.

Seeds and cuttings, rarely old beaten up plants in nurseries [ very rare ] and drains.

You adapt and manage, and oh yes, the refrigerator for 2 and a half months a year.
Mostly you just do for yourself.
Good Day
Anthony

I also refine my own clay to make pots to keep costs down. Don't glaze, not skilled enough for that.
I Crush my leftover bricks to use in soil too. Works nicely, hard work though and I often get cuts.

I don't go to clubs either but I do have the option. The only thing I do that you don't have access to is compost bought from the store and my chickens.
We are very similar in some ways.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Well, let's see:
-Last September I drove 2000 miles RT to participate in the USNBE, spend time with bonsai brethren, tour Bill's place, and shop pots & supplies.
-In June, I drove to Nashville for their show, and see some friends, 300 miles RT.
-In 2013 and 2010, I traveled 3000 miles RT to collect in western SD, and this summer will be traveling further West to collect near Idaho.
-1/3 of my trees are collected, from IA, SD, MS, AL. Another 1/3 were purchased online, by photos only.
When I travel for work or otherwise, I always make an effort to find bonsai activity in the area, and if I'm solo, I'll happliy go an hour+ out of my way.
-In 2012, I sent my chishio maple with a complete stranger to take to NY for me. Turns out Jim is a good guy, who returned the maple in perfect condition ;-)
-Most of my containers are purchased online from guys in Japan I may never meet, and have never once had a bad transaction. I have found my go-to sources for tools, wire, etc. and do most of that online.
-I coordinate guest master workshops and open my home to people a couple times a year. Inconvenient for the family, but they are accommodating., and I appreciate it.
-I coordinate volume soil purchases for the club and organize payment, transport, and distribution so our club members get access to good soil components at good prices, though it's not without effort on my part.

I never expected this to be easy, cheap, or convenient, but I enjoy it every day.

 

[Smoke]

I wasn't saying there is no material to be found here. You misinterpreted what I said. But alas, you must make a thread about it anyway because you were upset and it ruffled your feathers.

Its not that I am unwilling to devote to bonsai. If I could I really would.

Not everybody has all this money to devote to this hobby.

Not everybody has time to take a 400 mile trip to a bonsai nursery.

People have jobs, family and other more significant things in our life.

Does that mean I am not dedicated to this hobby? Certainly not. I still have a passion for this hobby and still want to continue doing it and grow as an artist.

By lack of good material I didn't mean there was none to be found here. I meant I don't have resources (time/money) to go out and make a collection trip or a round trip to a bonsai nursery. Does that mean I should just give up this hobby then? Does that mean I should be content with my 'crappy trees' and not do bonsai on a 'high level'?

I wasn't 'blaming' my lack of material on anyone. I was simply stating my point of view and my situation. I'm young and I am willing to spend the extra time and effort to make 'crappy trees' valuable. I see nothing wrong with being frugal and conservative with your trees and resources.

I didn't mean to insult you with that post, and I don't mean to insult you with this one. Just defending me and others alike. You are obviously a talented artist and you gladly share your time on this site, which I am thankful for.

How could I possibly misinterpret your words, I quoted them verbatum. My feathers are not ruffled at all. i think you think I walk out my front door and trip on masterpiece material because I live in California. Maybe I post gobs of new material on a weekly basis or show pictures of unbelievable places to purchase material, but it does come with a price. It ain't free and it does take time. I guess I have the means and the time to do that and I am more fortunate. Posts like this are meant to be provacative and getting people talking about what is going on in their bonsai life. There is a full graph of bonsai and people will fall all over the place on the graph. I hope now your statement makes more sense about how my access is not as plentiful as you might think. I have to spend lots of money to get what I have, it does not fall on my doorstep.

 

[Smoke]

Well, let's see:
-Last September I drove 2000 miles RT to participate in the USNBE, spend time with bonsai brethren, tour Bill's place, and shop pots & supplies.
-In June, I drove to Nashville for their show, and see some friends, 300 miles RT.
-In 2013 and 2010, I traveled 3000 miles RT to collect in western SD, and this summer will be traveling further West to collect near Idaho.
-1/3 of my trees are collected, from IA, SD, MS, AL. Another 1/3 were purchased online, by photos only.
When I travel for work or otherwise, I always make an effort to find bonsai activity in the area, and if I'm solo, I'll happliy go an hour+ out of my way.
-In 2012, I sent my chishio maple with a complete stranger to take to NY for me. Turns out Jim is a good guy, who returned the maple in perfect condition ;-)
-Most of my containers are purchased online from guys in Japan I may never meet, and have never once had a bad transaction. I have found my go-to sources for tools, wire, etc. and do most of that online.
-I coordinate guest master workshops and open my home to people a couple times a year. Inconvenient for the family, but they are accommodating., and I appreciate it.
-I coordinate volume soil purchases for the club and organize payment, transport, and distribution so our club members get access to good soil components at good prices, though it's not without effort on my part.

I never expected this to be easy, cheap, or convenient, but I enjoy it every day.

...and it shows....

 

[Dav4]

When I fly up to visit my parents in MA, I bring an empty carry-on bag, and I can tell you that it isn't for all the shoes, slacks, and underwear that I could buy at the Wrentham Outlets...Bellingham and NEBG is just another 15 miles up Rt 495. Fwiw, underwear and dirty t-shirts make excellent packing material...

 

[Dav4]

Sorry, Brian...almost forgot about the 5 hour, 400 mile drive to Birmingham and back for soil components and impromptu bonsai wiring or repotting sessions.

 

[Adair M]

Hmm... I fly 4 hours each way to study bonsai with a Master, 3 times a year. I teach bonsai to others in workshops 3 or 4 weekends a year.

Yeah, I'm willing to spend time and effort on this bonsai thing.

 

[Smoke]

b. Fwiw, underwear and dirty t-shirts make excellent packing material...

Man, only a sucker would comment on this one....

 

[JoeR]

How could I possibly misinterpret your words, I quoted them verbatum. My feathers are not ruffled at all. i think you think I walk out my front door and trip on masterpiece material because I live in California. Maybe I post gobs of new material on a weekly basis or show pictures of unbelievable places to purchase material, but it does come with a price. It ain't free and it does take time. I guess I have the means and the time to do that and I am more fortunate. Posts like this are meant to be provacative and getting people talking about what is going on in their bonsai life. There is a full graph of bonsai and people will fall all over the place on the graph. I hope now your statement makes more sense about how my access is not as plentiful as you might think. I have to spend lots of money to get what I have, it does not fall on my doorstep.

Why on earth would you believe I think that? Its quite frustrating to be accused of such things.

Smoke, seriously. I respect you and the work you contribute to this site and bonsaists everywhere.

I fully understand that what you have is from the work you've done. The whole 'you reap what you sow' thing.

Like I said, just misinterpreting.

 

[Smoke]

hmmm, I see a pattern developing....

 

[Smoke]

Why on earth would you believe I think that? Its quite frustrating to be accused of such things.

Smoke, seriously. I respect you and the work you contribute to this site and bonsaists everywhere.

I fully understand that what you have is from the work you've done. The whole 'you reap what you sow' thing.

Like I said, just misinterpreting.

I don't know..why would you say this;
"On the other side, people like you seem to have less time but access to tons of good material."

 

[milehigh_7]

...you were upset and it ruffled your feathers.

LOL Someone does not know Al real well.

 

[Smoke]

Hmm... I fly 4 hours each way to study bonsai with a Master, 3 times a year. I teach bonsai to others in workshops 3 or 4 weekends a year.

Yeah, I'm willing to spend time and effort on this bonsai thing.

...and money...don't forget lots of money....

 

[Smoke]

LOL Someone does not know Al real well.

Hey..tough love hurts like a bitch...