How is my wiring?

leatherback

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I am thinking of just removing all of my wiring as it is very very amateur
Does the current wiring do what it needs to do in your eyes? If so, leave it on. Pretty wiring helps in effeciveness, and when showing the tree it looks better. But if you keep the branches in the position you want them now, there probably is more damage to the tree un and re-wiring than there is leaving it on;
I have tied the trunk down in 3 places to straighten it a bit and am thinking of just keeping that
I would not aim at a straight trunk..
 

Adair M

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Hm.. I looks like it does make sense what he did though? If you look at the way the forks are wired, with wired in opposite direction wired on each side of the fork. The heavy black is more usefull for the heavier right branch, and as such, there seems a need to change direction of the wire there.
How would you have done this?
Most of the wiring is correct, with the spirals on each side of the forks going in opposite directions.

But the black wire, the heaviest wire, would have been the very first wire he put on. Did you look at the diagram I posted? Figure F? Do you see the mistake in that? Now, look at the branch, the black wire, and image what the branch looked like before all the other wires are there. You’ll see it eventually.

Granted, it’s not a huge mistake, I’m being nit-picky! It is interesting that Kimura let that mistake happen on a demonstration of “how to wire”! Lol!!!
 

Kadebe

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But the black wire, the heaviest wire, would have been the very first wire he put on. Did you look at the diagram I posted? Figure F? Do you see the mistake in that? Now, look at the branch, the black wire, and image what the branch looked like before all the other wires are there. You’ll see it eventually.
So he should enter the black wire in the obtuse angle of the branch and keep wiring in the same direction as the trunk?
 

leatherback

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Yes, I understand the mistake you see there. It is slightly different than figure f, I feel though ;).
Fixing it would mean having the yellow wire start on top of the fork, instead of below. I would expect him to have a reason (Which direction will the branches after the fork move) to want the wire over or under?
 

Adair M

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Yes, I understand the mistake you see there. It is slightly different than figure f, I feel though ;).
Fixing it would mean having the yellow wire start on top of the fork, instead of below. I would expect him to have a reason (Which direction will the branches after the fork move) to want the wire over or under?
Yes, you are correct. He would have started the yellow wire on top of the fork instead of below. It doesn’t matter which way he wants to move the branch when wiring. The wire when properly anchored can move it in any direction. The idea is to do it neatly (meaning: use minimal wire and minimize crossing wires) and effectively.

If you REALLY study it, you can find places where he crossed wires on some of the small wires. But he did it so that it crossed on the bottom of the branch where it doesn’t show!
 

leatherback

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Yes, you are correct. He would have started the yellow wire on top of the fork instead of below. It doesn’t matter which way he wants to move the branch when wiring. The wire when properly anchored can move it in any direction. The idea is to do it neatly (meaning: use minimal wire and minimize crossing wires) and effectively.

If you REALLY study it, you can find places where he crossed wires on some of the small wires. But he did it so that it crossed on the bottom of the branch where it doesn’t show!
I think one of the things to learn here includes, do not sweat the details. Aim for perfect wiring and accept that it is at times easier / faster / just as good to make small mistakes. :)
 

Colorado

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Most of the wiring is correct, with the spirals on each side of the forks going in opposite directions.

But the black wire, the heaviest wire, would have been the very first wire he put on. Did you look at the diagram I posted? Figure F? Do you see the mistake in that? Now, look at the branch, the black wire, and image what the branch looked like before all the other wires are there. You’ll see it eventually.

Granted, it’s not a huge mistake, I’m being nit-picky! It is interesting that Kimura let that mistake happen on a demonstration of “how to wire”! Lol!!!

Don’t you think that it was intentional? I have a hard time believing that Kimura forgot which way the wire was supposed to go!
 

ShadyStump

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I think one of the things to learn here includes, do not sweat the details. Aim for perfect wiring and accept that it is at times easier / faster / just as good to make small mistakes. :)
I'm with this.
I'm a big proponent of; if it's stupid, but works, it isn't stupid.

If it's technically perfect, but fails to achieve the desired effects...
If it's smart, but doesn't work, is it really so smart?

OP, just focus on the tree you want. Learn as much as you can along the way. Keep doing that.
 

Adair M

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Don’t you think that it was intentional? I have a hard time believing that Kimura forgot which way the wire was supposed to go!
I have no idea what he was thinking! When I’m wiring and come to a fork, I have to decide which fork to take. It’s usually possible to go either way. So, since he was working with the heavier wire, there must have been something about that left branch he felt needed the heavy wire, and he just took it there the easiest way. In the end, he made it work. I’m just saying that it would have been better had he backed the wire up a bit, and brought it over the top rather than going under when going to that left branch.

These little choices present themselves constantly when wiring. I often have to pause and evaluate “which way to go”. Usually it doesn’t matter, but sometimes it does. And sometimes, I choose poorly! Which I don’t discover until I’m trying to place the next wire. THEN, I have a tougher decision: can I “make it work”? Or do I have to fix what I’ve done? And if I have to fix it, can I easily fix it by unwinding a bit and reusing/redirecting that faulty wire, or do I have to remove it and start over? It depends!

But, each time I have to evaluate my own wiring (and fixing or reworking it) teaches me something so that the next time I am confronted with a similar choice, I make better decisions! If I were to just leave it and not force myself to fix it, my wiring wouldn’t improve. I have found that I don’t have to fix or create workarounds nearly as much as I used to.
 

JEads

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Don’t you think that it was intentional? I have a hard time believing that Kimura forgot which way the wire was supposed to go!
I agree with this. Although the wiring shown is not "technically" correct according to the book, the book is often thrown out when you are dealing with real wiring situations. None of us can know the real reason that he reversed directions, but look into the trees of any professional yard in any country and you will find many situations that do not follow the rules.
To be clear, though, I also do not promote wiring anarchy. The "rules" are there because that is what usually works. but they are not laws.

Basically, we followed these rules for wiring in Michael's yard:
1. Don't Cross wires- You remove wires when they need to be removed and not all at the same time. If you cross them, you will not be able to remove the lower wire without removing the one that is crossed over. Also, when you cross, the point at which they cross tends to dig into the branch worse.
2. Use the correct gauge of wire to do what needs to be done with the branch/trunk that you are wiring. This is an absolute. Miss this one and you rewire the tree.
3. Do not change spiral directions. This makes sense because of how anchoring and bending with the wire works. There were situations that warranted changing directions, but it had to be intentional.
4. Use as little wire as needed to get the job done. Overwiring= waste of time and wire. Underwiring= you cannot accomplish what you wired to accomplish. Luckily you can always add more wire. Just try to not have to do that while you teacher "patiently" watches over your shoulder for you to finish.
 

Adair M

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I agree with this. Although the wiring shown is not "technically" correct according to the book, the book is often thrown out when you are dealing with real wiring situations. None of us can know the real reason that he reversed directions, but look into the trees of any professional yard in any country and you will find many situations that do not follow the rules.
To be clear, though, I also do not promote wiring anarchy. The "rules" are there because that is what usually works. but they are not laws.

Basically, we followed these rules for wiring in Michael's yard:
1. Don't Cross wires- You remove wires when they need to be removed and not all at the same time. If you cross them, you will not be able to remove the lower wire without removing the one that is crossed over. Also, when you cross, the point at which they cross tends to dig into the branch worse.
2. Use the correct gauge of wire to do what needs to be done with the branch/trunk that you are wiring. This is an absolute. Miss this one and you rewire the tree.
3. Do not change spiral directions. This makes sense because of how anchoring and bending with the wire works. There were situations that warranted changing directions, but it had to be intentional.
4. Use as little wire as needed to get the job done. Overwiring= waste of time and wire. Underwiring= you cannot accomplish what you wired to accomplish. Luckily you can always add more wire. Just try to not have to do that while you teacher "patiently" watches over your shoulder for you to finish.
Those are good rules. You realize that Michael’s teacher was also my teacher: Boon. Michael learns using the very diagrams I posted in this thread. (I only posted a few of the relevant pages here.)

May I add an additional rule?

5. Always wire two branches with one wire. Sure there are exceptions when you might need to splice in single wire, but always try first to wire with both ends before resorting to splicing.
 

hampton

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@Adair M - Could I ask what are the reference documents in your images and if they're available for purchase/published anywhere? If not, certainly no worries just figured I'd ask. I love the ease of access the internet provides but almost always prefer reading on paper.
 

Adair M

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@Adair M - Could I ask what are the reference documents in your images and if they're available for purchase/published anywhere? If not, certainly no worries just figured I'd ask. I love the ease of access the internet provides but almost always prefer reading on paper.

These are handouts I received from Boon when I was taking his Intensive classes. I don’t know where he got them, but he’s been using them for years.
 

Orion_metalhead

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Thanks everybody. I have taken my wiring off and joined a local bonsai club to get some more experience :)
Best thing you could do to learn to wire, honestly. It helps to have someone show you in person. The Mirai beginner series is great also.

One thing that was readily apparent in your pictures was that you had wrapped wire around the trunk in both clockwise and counterclockwise direction, effectively girdling the trunk. This could kl the tree by cutting off the flow of water up the trunk. So it was good you removed the wire.

I would keep practicing on hedge clippings and stuff.
 
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