How long to know if a broken branch has died?

[Mike Corazzi]

I was working my JBP today with a radical bend. I flexed it several times to limber up the inner structure.
Put the wire on and later noticed an air space where the branch had cracked.
Patched as best I could with cut paste and the upper and lower cambium looks intact.
But....there's that broken middle.

Just wondering how long til I know if the damage was fatal?

TIA.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

If it's actively moving juices/growing, a couple days and the needles will go floppy.

If it's dormant, anywhere in between a few weeks and three months. The needles will put on some fireworks if that's the case (yellow, purple, green, brown, everything in between).. At least my JBP did before I killed them all.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

The candles are quite extended.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Needless to say... don't TOUCH the branch for two years Not to see if it is still cracked. Not just because you are curious. Not just because you can't sleep at night wondering if the branch is going to die. Don't TOUCH it Else your nightmare may easily become reality

 

[Mike Corazzi]

In 2 years the branch may be alive but I doubt I will.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

But then..........the dead don't touch branches so I guess it all works out.

 

[Adair M]

Why did you flex it to “limber it up”?

Don’t EVER do that!

When I wire a branch, I try to flex it as little as possible as I move it into position. Whenever possible, I try to move the branch into position as I wire. (As opposed to wiring the branch as it is, and then bending it). It’s less stressful on the branch.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Why did you flex it to “limber it up”?

Don’t EVER do that!

Same question here? Have seen one supposedly knowledgable Bonsai woman do this. Cringes and chills! Best advice repeated: Leave alone now and see if life remains. "Flexing" may have killed it.

 

[Adair M]

Same question here? Have seen one supposedly knowledgable Bonsai woman do this. Cringes and chills! Best advice repeated: Leave alone now and see if life remains. "Flexing" may have killed it.

Oh! You’ve seen Kathy Shaner do that? Yep, she has killed a lot of branches doing that. She likes to twist juniper branches, too. If you do that during the summer, it’s likely to separate the cambium from the heartwood, which will kill the branch. I’ve seen her do it.

I once assisted her doing a demonstration for the Atlanta Bonsai Society. We worked on a juniper. I cleaned out the old foliage while she created some Jin. Then it came time to wire. She worked on one side, I was on the other. I asked her which branches she wanted me to do first, then proceeded to wire. When I was done, she said, “Oh, Adair, you wire too tight! I like the wire loose, so that it’s not actually touching!”

So I asked, if it’s not touching, how does it move the branch?

Her reply: “I twist the branches into place. The wire tightens up as I twist. If I want to move the branch THIS way, I spiral clockwise, and if I want to move the branch THAT way, I spiral counter-clockwise.”

I told her I wasn’t trained that way, and I wouldn’t be able to help her wire!

The way I’m trained is to have the wire lightly touching everywhere. Try to have wire on the outside of the bends. And move the branch into position as you wire, so that when you’re done, only minor tweaking is necessary. (As opposed to wiring it out, then bending it).

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Actually it's what I was TAUGHT in our bonsai group. Hmmmmmm.
I'll just wait it out. I tend to think it's on it's way to a jin.
Sure glad I didn't remove any of the "backup" limbs that I was tempted to.
Thanks all.

A long road.

 

[Adair M]

Actually it's what I was TAUGHT in our bonsai group. Hmmmmmm.
I'll just wait it out. I tend to think it's on it's way to a jin.
Sure glad I didn't remove any of the "backup" limbs that I was tempted to.
Thanks all.

A long road.

You guys Kathy Shaner students?

Because as far as I know, she is the only bonsai professional who advocates that.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

You guys Kathy Shaner students?

Because as far as I know, she is the only bonsai professional who advocates that.

Nope. First I've even heard of her. This is a local group. Not the first error.

 

[Adair M]

Nope. First I've even heard of her. This is a local group. Not the first error.

Ok. I’m sorry this happened to you. Just don’t do it again!

You might want to share your experience with the local group.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Ok. I’m sorry this happened to you. Just don’t do it again!

You might want to share your experience with the local group.

The ..........local..........group is still absent for covid.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

I am letting the candles on the suspect branch elongate with no interference. So far, so good.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Excellent sign. All growth generates healing of damage.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Looks like the glue and wire is doing all right.



The top left branch was the one.

 

[PA_Penjing]

You guys Kathy Shaner students?

Because as far as I know, she is the only bonsai professional who advocates that.

I was taught this by two professionals as well. Not Kathy Shaner, but one was Chase Rosade. I'm actually a little relieved to here it is untrue because I prefer the way you do it. Which is the way I do it in the privacy of my own yard haha. Not just twisting to tighten the wire but massaging branches/trunks before a big bend. Both professionals were older guys, wondering if it was an American fad/myth at a specific time

 

[PiñonJ]

The only way you’ll limber up a branch by flexing it is if you’re breaking wood fibers, so the least trauma to the tree is going to come from using heavy enough wire to hold it and bending it all in one go. Luckily, pines can move resources laterally to get around breaks in the xylem. I recently styled my JRP and did a wedge cut in the trunk. As I was bending it, the outside of the bend cracked (loudly!). I sealed the cut and the cracked wood with cut paste. The candles in the apex have pushed like nothing ever happened.

 

[Tieball]

I always watered heavily before wiring. Mentally thinking the tree branches would have more wiggle ability with greater fluids in place. It was probably just my active imagination.