Rick Moquin
Omono
PS: Hey! What do you know, a real discussion, and no one interested except me and Will.
... an intelligent and interesting debate/read but not one that stimulates my participation, with the exception of this reply.
PS: Hey! What do you know, a real discussion, and no one interested except me and Will.
PS: Hey! What do you know, a real discussion, and no one interested except me and Will.
I have had the same observations and have come to the conclusion that many of these moderators often confuse authority with knowledge and experience. I have noticed that if someone contradicts some of them on advice it can get very ugly quick. Couple this sad state of affairs with the common occurrence that you mentioned above of the moderators posting very often on all threads and that they are usually the first to respond to questions asked or the first to offer advice and you have a serious problem of dilution. It is my personal opinion that moderators should spend their time moderating when needed, I have rarely seen moderators that contribute much to discussions....I get the distinct impression from the moderators at BT, BC, and BS. The moderators there seem to pretty much run the show, not intentionally, but they post an enormous number of posts and this sets the agenda. None of these folks seems to be very far advanced in bonsai as far as I can tell. They don't really need to be to be moderators, but domination of the posting by this group really lowers the bar of the quality of the site. I understand the dilemma, one doesn't want to leave a newbie question dangling. I think the better system is to have a benign dictator like Bnut, and let the chips fall where they may. If I ran a forum, that's certainly what I would do.
Exactly!...The easy answer here is that Jim Lewis simply won't allow any silliness or personal attacks. Although, I like the guy, his style does have a chilling effect. I have talked to numerous people who won't post there because of some unfortunate exchange, or fear of one. This has dried up a lot of the spontaneity. The IBC still has the greatest number of professional and otherwise knowledgeable bonsai practitioners. It is my hope that it will arise from it's slumber to rule again.
Thanks for the honesty. I am currently looking for the book "How to win friends and influence people."...I won't pull any punches, you can generate a terrific amount of serious bonsai discussion, but your manner has often brought out the worst in people as well, and perhaps the worst in you.
How true. We also need to realize that beginners do in fact bring these gems and that we should not dismiss ideas based only on the persons experience level. Fresh eyes can see many things old eyes can not.... Beginners bring us rare gems along with tons of pony poop. It's up to us to figure out which is which.
Do you have that link handy? I would like to list it as well for others to learn from....There was another tutorial on another site that did the same thing with Photshop and GIMP as well, which was great for me because I am on a Linux computer.
Unless you are planning to make a tumbleweed bonsai, the place is basically useless now. Pop-ups, extreme ads, banning anyone who linked anywhere, and some questionable advice being posted did the place in. A perfect example of a forum, so hung up with trying to "capture" the membership that they ruined the whole forum....And look at Gardenweb now.
....perhaps you were so busy talking you didn't even realise you had an answer....people want different things and no one site is likely to be all things to all people.
.....Perhaps you overlook the contributions of the "lessers" or find them frivolous.Not worthy of your time?Inconsequential?
.....This is the kind of discussion I would expect to find at AOB.
I have a feeling that what you and Will and Brent really want is to have the final word when dealing with "lessers".I think you want the beginners to follow every word as gospel as you do those of Walter Pall or whomever you think is a more skilled artisan than yourself.
AoB has been up and operational for over two years now, no silliness, no crap, and we have never had to ban a single person either. Why? The tone is set, the rules are plain, the conversation is professional, polite, and straight.
If you want a draconian, strict forum, with ZERO jocular content. Well look no further than AOB. A forum is made of people who particpate. And those people have personalities.
The personalities of the people who participate, give a forum, it's unique personality.
Why am I a co-founder of two forums, one culivational, one artistic? Why do I frequent IBC and Bnut? Why do I visit bonsaisite, tropicalbonsai, canadabonsai, and browse BT and BC occasionally?Ok, you made your point. But, "there must be a reason" why people such as yourself, who are so involved in another forum(s), spend so much time on other forums.
I helped to create AoB from scratch because I and others, had an itch that other forums were not scratching. It turns out that that itch was the need for serious, advanced, artistic knowledge and discussion. Kob came later out of a need for serious, advanced, culivational discussion. Neither AoB or KoB are discussion forums, sometimes I enjoy bouncing ideas and thoughts off other people, in example, this excellent conversation I am having with Brent. This stuff is valuable and it is rare.The niche that AOB fills, must not be a niche that fills your needs. So, you go elsewhere to find a place to have your needs fulfilled.
Amazing that a couple people have stated how refreshing and good this discussion was and a couple have said how pointless and silly it was....I have learned a lot from this thread. But this thread has NOTHING to do with bonsai. So, it's off topic, maybe trivial, sometimes rude, with a little bit of sillyiness thrown in.
Static, it will ruin the best of conversations.
Most people indeed do visit several forums. And It's true that the moderator and the people who participate in a forum "sets the tone"
I have gained the majority of bonsai knowledge from forums. But when I began reading the forums, I choose bonsaiTALK because of it's mix of practical techniques, quality information, and because sometimes there are posts that amuse me.
I agree with many of the people here concerning IBC. I read the forum there on a regular basis. But the "tone" does not appeal enough to me for me to consider it my "home" forum.
... and I believe that it should remain that way, it caters to many folks who may not share your opinion perse. It is a place where some serious debate takes place, without personal attacks, although I have to admit I did see the occasional thread. It is often said "it is better to look like a fool than to speak and remove all doubt". If one cannot carry on an intelligent conversation, or add to said conversation with intelligent thought provoking ideas and debates, then perhaps one should refrain from posting. AoB and KoB have their place on the internet, different strokes for different folks. One thing that cannot be denied is the quality of material found there. Perhaps not something to sink one's teeth in or apeal to everyone, but informative to say the least.If you want a draconian, strict forum, with ZERO jocular content. Well look no further than AOB. A forum is made of people who particpate. And those people have personalities.
The personalities of the people who participate, give a forum, it's unique personality.
btw...unless you have a vested interest in Bnut...it doesn't really matter how you define success.How does Bonsainut define it?What does Bonsainut want his forum to be?Let's pretend this is a business venture.What are Bonsainut's goals?What is his perceived audience?What does he want to accomplish?Does he want to generate traffic to generate income?Does he want to generate traffic so as to expose as many to bonsai as he can?Does he want to help beginners?Does he want to promote accomplished artists?Does he want a workshop atmosphere?..or a demo atmosphere?..or a club atmosphere?