How soon after a graft can you safely wire?

Relic37

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I just purchased a few Japanese maples that were grafted: a 2-gallon Deshojo, and 1-gallon Oto hime and Coonara pygmy varieties. I was going to wire this trunks in a few weeks to get a gentle "S" curve started but was wondering if the grafts would be in danger? The grafts look fairly fresh (still clear wrapped). Should I wait until next year? (I would attach photos but we are having a heavy dose of freezing rain a the moment.)

Thanks for any advice.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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That's a loaded question my friend. If we say 5 years and the graft snaps, it's our fault.
If we say 15 years and the graft snaps, it's our fault.
If we say 20 years you wouldn't be able to bend it.

I wired grafted trunks twice, those were three years old. But I wrapped them in rubber insulator tape and raffia before I wired them. They held.
But a couple weeks ago I was going over a juniper trunk with branches grafted onto them and one scion fell off. It wasn't grown attached at all, even though it had been growing vigorously for two years.

I think every answer to your question is wrong, unless the outcome is right. That's the killer-thing about it. A gentle curve can be 5° but also 25°.
 

Relic37

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That's a loaded question my friend. If we say 5 years and the graft snaps, it's our fault.
If we say 15 years and the graft snaps, it's our fault.
If we say 20 years you wouldn't be able to bend it.

I wired grafted trunks twice, those were three years old. But I wrapped them in rubber insulator tape and raffia before I wired them. They held.
But a couple weeks ago I was going over a juniper trunk with branches grafted onto them and one scion fell off. It wasn't grown attached at all, even though it had been growing vigorously for two years.

I think every answer to your question is wrong, unless the outcome is right. That's the killer-thing about it. A gentle curve can be 5° but also 25°.
I kind of expected that might be the case. I've not yet worked with grafted stock and I think I might just relegate these three trees to straight trunks and just wait and let the trunks thicken and develop the branches. There are plenty of lovely JPMs without any serious trunk movement, at least in my opinion.
 

19Mateo83

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I kind of expected that might be the case. I've not yet worked with grafted stock and I think I might just relegate these three trees to straight trunks and just wait and let the trunks thicken and develop the branches. There are plenty of lovely JPMs without any serious trunk movement, at least in my opinion.
Air layer them off the grafts instead of waiting for the grafts. In less time you will get trees on their own roots. I know the deshojos will air layer. This link may interest you 👇
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Air layering is also an option.
If you manage to get buds on the root stock, you can use cuttings from the rootstock to approach graft roots in a more favorable position.
 

Relic37

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Air layer them off the grafts instead of waiting for the grafts. In less time you will get trees on their own roots. I know the deshojos will air layer. This link may interest you 👇
This might be a good option - I've done a dozen air-layers off of large landscape JPMs in the past (mostly just plain green variety), but had no luck with getting cuttings to root. I'll do more study on the cuttings and perhaps try a few of those this spring. If that doesn't work I'll try layering next year perhaps.
 

Shibui

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@Wires_Guy_wires is correct. Grafts are NEVER as strong as the surrounding wood so there's always a chance of breaking when you bend close to a graft. Same with healed breaks. Tend to break again in the same spot for years and years after they've healed up on the outside because deep down the break is still there in the core wood.
I've broken a number of trunks and branches simply by forgetting that there was once a break or a graft there.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Just for emphasis, a graft will always be a weak point. Even a 25 year old graft will be a weak point. Never wire across a graft if you can avoid doing so. If you do wire across a graft, realize that any pressure across the graft, may break the tree at the graft. It will always be a weak point.
 

Relic37

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Just for emphasis, a graft will always be a weak point. Even a 25 year old graft will be a weak point. Never wire across a graft if you can avoid doing so. If you do wire across a graft, realize that any pressure across the graft, may break the tree at the graft. It will always be a weak point.
The 3 grafted trees are quite small, not even pencil thick, so wiring the trunks gently into an "S" seemed tempting, even starting a few inches above the graft. I talked to the man who grafted them and he said the grafts were done a year ago. But I think I might just grow these trees as nice potted accent plants - no bonsai - and enjoy them for what they are: a nice change from all my run-of-the-mill green maples I'm playing with. Thanks for your input.
 

Ininaatigoons

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This is a real good question and something serious to consider!
 
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