how to aproach the too many branch problem

[barrosinc]

I have this crataegus with tons of branches, it is soooo overwhelming!

What do you guys do when you work on design?
when do you cut the branches? do you choose one from an area, wire it and chop the rest and go up the tree?
or wire and mark the branches you don't think you need and chop at the end?
or chop a ton of branches of the tree just by major guestimation by keeping the most flexible ones?

And then when choosing, is it better of keeping the thinest ones to be able to bend the most?

Sorry for this noob question, but I am stuck and don't know what to cut and it is getting hard to think style with so many branches.

 

[JudyB]

You must decide on a direction, or style for your tree, and then decide what branches best work within the framework for that style. You also must think about the phase your tree is in, whether it's in development or later. I try to keep the upper branchwork to the smaller sizes, as you don't want to get the taper out of control up there, as too large branches can look wrong up top, but lower branches I try to choose the largest ones, that come out at the right angle already, or the largest ones I can bend around to where I want them.

But think about the curves of the tree, and know that you want to keep the branches at the outsides of the curves if you can.

 

[benw3790]

What judy said! But also, you can start by pruning branches that cross, grow straight up or straignt down and branches that are way to Thick for the top, as she said. sometimes its easier to find that frame work or a design after thinning branches. Once you have thinned out the tree and have found a direction to go in, you can prune branches that you know for a fact won't fit in. If you are uncesrtain about any of them, leave em. They can always be cut later.

 

[JudyB]

Maybe you could post the tree, and let us take a look?

 

[barrosinc]

It is a crataegus, I do not know the variety... and it does reverse taper at the top.





And I kind liked this one:

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I would highly encourage you to enjoy this one as it is, through the winter, and then get a good look at it without leaves.
Later, it will be a matter of:
1. Determining the best front, based on nebari, base, trunk shape and movement.
2. Determining how you want to handle the stump at the top so its pleasing from the chosen front.
3. Begin to reduce clusters of branches emerging from one spot down to 1-2 branches.
-thinner branches remain up high, thicker branches down low.
-if the thicker branches are still pliable, I'd wire some movement into them in the late winter.
-after the next growing season, shorten those wired branches and rewire the secondaries.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

And...if you must do something now (which is understandable)...just clean away the dead stuff, scrub the trunk, expose cambium around old pruning scars to keep the callus rolling. Busy work, yes, but also helps you learn the tree. Invaluable investment of time.

 

[barrosinc]

Thanks Brian... once again.

 

[sorce]

Real nice material Max!

I hope, eventually you get a nice clump out of that top too!

Sorce

 

[JudyB]

Yes this is nice Max! I see a good tree in there. You will too,- take your time like Brian said. Just curious, is this collected, and if so when? Looks pretty strong.

 

[jk_lewis]

Whatever you do and whenever you do it, BE CAREFUL, and go slowly. First, hawthorn is called hawTHORN for a reason. You WILL get poked as you prune and wire. And, for me at least, ALL hawthorn punctures get infected. So, wash and use Neosporin quickly.

On the pictures you showed us, the branches that angle ACROSS the trunk must go. Virtually all those short, skinny and straight interior branches that pop right out of the trunk should go -- especially down low and upper midway on the tree.

Once you've gotten rid of all those (crossing and skinny sprouts) . . . STOP.

Set all tools aside, put the tree on a turntable and study it -- for a few days, if necessary. As Judy said, think about what you'd like the tree to become.

If (when) you see a branch that just doesn't look right after a period of close study, cut it off. Then stop and repeat the study . . . etc.

There is no hurry to create a bonsai -- not ever -- unless you're entering one of these silly contests somewhere and don't care what the tree becomes.

 

[JudyB]

So true JKL. I find that when I'm cutting and shaping a tree for the first time, it's good practice to stop every so often and walk away for a bit. I also find it's helpful to photograph the tree as I near completion, as photos will sometimes show you what your eye doesn't want to see.

 

[Lazylightningny]

I think I'd leave the lowest branches in place for a couple of years to fatten up the base a little. Perhaps chop the top just above the fat leader at the top. Wouldn't that redirect energy to the lower branches?

 

[barrosinc]

Thanks everyone! I am still studying this tree... I have had it for two weeks and have done nothing to it yet.

Any idea what type of crataegus it is? Should I post a closeup of the leaves? Or you need to see the flowers/berry to know?

 

[JudyB]

When you go to repot this, know that hawthorn respond slowly after rootwork. I have found also that they tend to sulk if you overpot them.

 

[barrosinc]

Yes this is nice Max! I see a good tree in there. You will too,- take your time like Brian said. Just curious, is this collected, and if so when? Looks pretty strong.

It is a collected tree, not by me. I was told, it was dug almost two years ag0 (july 2013).

 

[M. Frary]

Hawthorn thorns leave a little piece of bark off of the tip in you when you pull it out. That's why they get infected. Try running one through a chipper once. They keep on fighting till the bitter end.

 

[discusmike]

Root cuttings will root from hawthorn.

 

[barrosinc]

Root cuttings will root from hawthorn.

Thanks, I might do a couple in case root grafting is needed.

 

[sharkman154]

I've seen people clip off thorns on other trees that they're still developing and have a few years before its put to refinement