How to know if cuttings are successful

BalconyBonsai

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Hi, when pruning my japanese maple, standard and a deshojo, I decided that instead of throwing the waste away I would plant them and see what happened. I hadn't done alot of reading on cuttings so did not follow any direct instructions but had seen some things about it so I did remove some of the leaves on each cutting(but maybe not enough), used a quite granular soil etc. However I did not use any rooting hormone. I took the cuttings maybe a month ago and and unfortunately I did not know about the misting that I should be doing. Instead I have been keeping the soil watered which might have been a bad idea after reading some more.

Anyway, this was about a month ago and of the deshojo cuttings only 1 or 2 look somewhat alive still. When it comes to the standard variety there are quite a number of cuttings that look healthy. Not sure if they have put any new growth out or not but I dont think so.

My question now is, how can I tell if they have in fact rooted or are just retaining moisture somehow and are just seemingly alive? I dont want to start pulling out the cuttings to look for roots since I assume they will break if I do. So at what stage do I risk it and take them out? Is this after they have started producing new growth for some time?

Thanks



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Shibui

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I wait for roots to appear out the drain holes before deciding they are successful and repotting.
You are correct about breaking roots by the pull up or tug on the stem methods. New roots are incredibly brittle. Some drop off just under their own weight when repotting cuttings.
Some cuttings with thicker stems can grow quite long shoots before running out of stores and collapsing so new growth is not always a reliable indicator.
Little skinny ones like these don't have much stored so new growth will be a good sign.

They won't come to any harm growing in the cutting containers until you are certain of success.
 

BalconyBonsai

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Ok, thanks for your replies. Then I will make no assumptions at this time. In terms of what I can do to improve my chances at this stage, what would be the best things to do? Put plastic bags around them to improve moisture or something else? And since I didn't use any rooting hormone, do I have any chance of getting any of them to root? All guides I have read/watched online seems to use rooting hormones.
 

Shibui

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Hormone definitely helps cuttings produce roots better and faster. Some species have really good strike rates without any treatment while others rarely strike without added hormones.
Some growers get good strike rates with JM but I don't. Even the few that do grow roots tend to die off after transplant so I don't even bother trying any more. Seeds are much more reliable and just as quick for me.
Your cuttings look good so far. Fingers crossed that you get a good strike rate.
Plastic bags to maintain humidity will definitely help but can also promote fungal infection so probably a good idea to take the bag off every few days for fresh air. Peroxide is a good anti fungal treatment/preventative and does not seem to harm the plants.
 

BalconyBonsai

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Hormone definitely helps cuttings produce roots better and faster. Some species have really good strike rates without any treatment while others rarely strike without added hormones.
Some growers get good strike rates with JM but I don't. Even the few that do grow roots tend to die off after transplant so I don't even bother trying any more. Seeds are much more reliable and just as quick for me.
Your cuttings look good so far. Fingers crossed that you get a good strike rate.
Plastic bags to maintain humidity will definitely help but can also promote fungal infection so probably a good idea to take the bag off every few days for fresh air. Peroxide is a good anti fungal treatment/preventative and does not seem to harm the plants.
Thanks, I will probably just continue with what I have been doing so far then since it's at least not a disaster yet :)

Growing from seed is something I would like to do but my trees don't seem to get any. I will start a new thread regarding this. Thanks again for your input!
 

Shibui

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Bonsai often don't set seed because we prune often and remove flower buds before they open. Look for seed on trees around your neighborhood, in parks, street trees, hanging over front fences and in gardens of friends.
Find nice trees of suitable species now then go back to collect seed at the end of summer or autumn when they are ripe.
 

BalconyBonsai

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Hormone definitely helps cuttings produce roots better and faster. Some species have really good strike rates without any treatment while others rarely strike without added hormones.
Some growers get good strike rates with JM but I don't. Even the few that do grow roots tend to die off after transplant so I don't even bother trying any more. Seeds are much more reliable and just as quick for me.
Your cuttings look good so far. Fingers crossed that you get a good strike rate.
Plastic bags to maintain humidity will definitely help but can also promote fungal infection so probably a good idea to take the bag off every few days for fresh air. Peroxide is a good anti fungal treatment/preventative and does not seem to harm the plants.
I never removed the growing tips for most of the cuttings which I now understand I maybe should have. Most of them have dried up, even though the cutting itself seems fine. Is there any benefit to removing them now or I guess that will just put unnecessary stress on any cutting that has roots starting to form?
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I probe around with a stick to move some soil around the base, or I just pull them out or dig them up.
Because if it could make roots in the past, it can make roots in the future.

I strike multiple cuttings at a time simply because I want to dig a few up and be able to lose them. If the weakest has roots, the stronger ones probably will too.

My ginkgos keep growing strong even though they have no roots. Same goes for some other deciduous species. The only way to know for sure is to have a look - and if you're going to have to wait until their roots grow out of your container, that might take a year. It could also very well be roots of something else that are growing into the container from the ground, or the roots of a single cutting covering the entire container while the rest is standing still. Over time, experience will teach you when to stop pulling and when to start digging, or when to just wait.. I've done so many propagations of (micro-)cuttings that a tug is usually enough to tell if there's something going on. And still I want to have a look most of the times, this requires some skill but it's not that hard if you're patient.
Some plants require a recut, others start rotting at the base and can be saved when this is noticed on time.. Especially when those gnarly transparent plant-eating worms/nematodes start showing up.

So where others simply lose their entire batch of cuttings, I risk a couple to save the bunch. They're not wrong, neither am I. I think I have good motives to do what I do. I believe others have good motives to do what they do.
 

Shibui

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I never removed the growing tips for most of the cuttings which I now understand I maybe should have. Most of them have dried up, even though the cutting itself seems fine. Is there any benefit to removing them now or I guess that will just put unnecessary stress on any cutting that has roots starting to form?
It is too late to remove wilted tips. The cuttings have already done that for you. Most plants will try their best to stay alive by shedding excess leaves or shoots. Sometimes they don't mange but often they do. I don't think interfering now will change the outcome. Just keep in mind for next time.
 

BalconyBonsai

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It is too late to remove wilted tips. The cuttings have already done that for you. Most plants will try their best to stay alive by shedding excess leaves or shoots. Sometimes they don't mange but often they do. I don't think interfering now will change the outcome. Just keep in mind for next time.
Thanks for the advice! This was sort of a last minute throw away attempt but like you say, it's something to keep in mind for next time.
 

Ohmy222

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I wouldn't touch until you see some growth or are certain you have substantial roots. I used to be impatient but you can do more harm then good. If they have leaves and the leaves are black then you always have a chance. Cuttings are a race to get roots before the leaves are gone.
 
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I have a compost pile where i toss old roots and poor soil into. I stick any random long branches i cut into them. Had 2 privets strongly root in them after forgetting about it for 2 months. No attention, plenty of rain and scorching heat.


I think the trick is usually just forget about it.

Same thing for a successful maple air layer: tossed a plastic cup bottom, some woodchips and moss, a ziploc bag corner and a grocery bag around it- set a timer for 8 weeks and forgot about it.

Harvested yesterday with the plastic cup burst open from roots crawling out
 
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