How to manage fertilizer cakes?

[fore]

I've been using this mix for cakes this year:

4 cups Cottonseed Meal
4 cups Bone Meal
3 cup Fish Emulsion (deodorized!)
1 cup baking flour
1 packet of yeast
My question is, we've had a fair amt. of rain and the daily waterings have made them almost invisible, do you ever remove any of the cake or just let it completely disintegrate and then apply new ones? Or pick out the spent cake as best as possible to prevent it from hindering water absorption, then apply new cakes?

Thanks

 

[rockm]

Yes.

More seriously, you pick out what's left and replace. See the "Better late than never" post on what the cakes leave behind.

If you use them for long, you will have to remove the top inch or so or soil and replace it every so often as the dissolved build up of fert cake will clog soil. Watch for slow draining areas on the soil surface after you've been using them for a couple of months.

 

[jk_lewis]

I've never understood why people use fertilizer cakes/poo balls -- especially do-it-yourself cakes. There are all sorts of pre-measured, carefully formulated fertilizers on the market for which you know exactly how much of what nutrient you are delivering to your trees, and when you are delivering it.

I, for one, will always prefer certainty when it comes to feeding my trees. Plus, the slime molds you tend to get with poo-balls is very unattractive.

 

[Smoke]

I've never understood why people use fertilizer cakes/poo balls -- especially do-it-yourself cakes. There are all sorts of pre-measured, carefully formulated fertilizers on the market for which you know exactly how much of what nutrient you are delivering to your trees, and when you are delivering it.

I, for one, will always prefer certainty when it comes to feeding my trees. Plus, the slime molds you tend to get with poo-balls is very unattractive.

Woo Hoo.... three cheers for someone with common sense. I don't get it either. People are just naturally afraid of making wholesale paradigm shifts.....

 

[rockm]

Poo balls cloud common sense. They are part of the "magical mystery tour" mythic bonsai thing...They will persist as long as Mr. Miyagi. Wax on, wax off...

 

[Smoke]

.....oh....I was afraid of that

 

[berobinson82]

poo balls be damned!

 

[fore]

Thanks guys, and "Wow", I didn't expect such a negative response lol I like them for ease of use, very cheap to make, are fertilized even when it rains, and besides, I can tell by my plants if they are getting enough ferts. But I also supplement by using Osmocote, and weekly fertilizer. Of which I was using fish emulsion/seaweed. But Walter convinced me into slowly incr. the strength by 5. So I'm going to use what I have around, and that is affordable, Miracle Gro. So the cakes are just part of the 'strong fertilization regimen' since I switched over to inorganic substrate. Maybe this next batch I'll just try tea bags, I think Boon uses them, and this will avoid the cake breakdown buildup in the substrate.

I believe a well rounded fertilization regimen is the best.

 

[Smoke]

If you had to live on fried chicken, mashed potato's and gravy and green salad everyday of your life untill you died could you do it?

Sure you could.

Would you complain?

Probably at some point.

I could hook you up to an I.V. and you could be fed untill you died of natural causes. Your body like a plant, needs certain chemicals to stay alive. How it gets them is immaterial. Feeding your plants with a varity of fertilizers may be good for your ego, but if your plant could laugh at you it would. Your plant extracts the chemicals it needs from the fertilizer you provide and matabolizes it. Period. Varity adds nothing and is a waste of time.

Use fertilizer, use it often and with plenty of water. Everything else is just window dressing.

 

[yenling83]

Yes.

More seriously, you pick out what's left and replace. See the "Better late than never" post on what the cakes leave behind.

If you use them for long, you will have to remove the top inch or so or soil and replace it every so often as the dissolved build up of fert cake will clog soil. Watch for slow draining areas on the soil surface after you've been using them for a couple of months.

This is what I do, and I replace the top maybe 1/2-1 inch of soil 1-2/year-Soji. I really like the cakes, there's nothing wrong with using them if you would like. I believe most professionals in Japan use them.

 

[jk_lewis]

I believe most professionals in Japan use them.

Cue music: TRADITION . . . TRADITION

 

[Klytus]

Like eating raw fish,i've seen the Bears doing that.

 

[Smoke]

This is what I do, and I replace the top maybe 1/2-1 inch of soil 1-2/year-Soji. I really like the cakes, there's nothing wrong with using them if you would like. I believe most professionals in Japan use them.

Hey Jeremiah, I heard that a dilution of 50 perecnt roundup on the leaves of bonsai helps them build up an immunity. I heard this from a Boon Student and I think he studied in Japan also.

 

[Klytus]

I guess there may well be a use for Bloater paste after all.

 

[Kevster]

So on a serious note... Does anyone use blood meal or bone meal? I ask this because I have a bag of each I bought on sale at the end of summer last year with intent to use it this year. Not mixed into a cake but spread lightly over the top of the soil. Should I just throw it out into my vegetable garden and stick to liquid chemical and dyna gro I have?

 

[Smoke]

Most of these "meals" will just float off a bonsai pot so cakes is the only option if that is all you can get. Most of these are amendments meant to be used in fortifying garden soil and mixed into the soil with a roto tiller. Much the same way a farmer would do with acerage and crops.

There are literaly hundreds of fertilizers that are easy to apply and can be put right on the soil and do a really great job. making such a fuss over 4 or 5 ingredients to make a cake is really time consuming, messy and stinky and probably does more harm to the soil surface than many prepared compressed fertilizers. Most of the cakes just clog up the soil as the additives used to bind them cause more harm.

 

[Poink88]

Thanks guys, and "Wow", I didn't expect such a negative response lol I like them for ease of use, very cheap to make, are fertilized even when it rains, and besides, I can tell by my plants if they are getting enough ferts. But I also supplement by using Osmocote, and weekly fertilizer. Of which I was using fish emulsion/seaweed. But Walter convinced me into slowly incr. the strength by 5. So I'm going to use what I have around, and that is affordable, Miracle Gro. So the cakes are just part of the 'strong fertilization regimen' since I switched over to inorganic substrate. Maybe this next batch I'll just try tea bags, I think Boon uses them, and this will avoid the cake breakdown buildup in the substrate.

I believe a well rounded fertilization regimen is the best.

Chris,

You very likely can over dose your plants with all these fertilizing. Sometimes more is not always better.

 

[CamdenJim]

So on a serious note... Does anyone use blood meal or bone meal? ...

I used both in my 'cake mix' this year. Both chipmunks and squirrels think it's a great idea. I think it must have been a raccoon that actually tipped a pot off the bench while dining.
Next year, I won't.

 

[Kevster]

Well Smoke,
I guess I'll be starting up the tiller tomorrow afternoon. Plants are already in the ground so I guess I'll mix it in as close as I can without hitting roots. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[stacy allen muse]

?????????????