How to prune young spruce producing mainly bar and parallel branches

saucyintruder

Sapling
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I found this tiny spruce in my garden a year ago and want to grow it as a bonsai. The issue is that its natural pattern is to produce bar branches and parallel branches, as you can see. I know I shouldn't prune until fall or early winter, but I'm concerned about how or whether to prune at all because most of the tree's branches are growing this way. Basically I'm wondering if kannuki eda is so bad with coniferous bonsai and whether I should just live with the growth pattern.
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just.wing.it

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Welcome to the Nut House!

Some questions...
1) Where are you located??
- it's good to update your profile to include your location, to get better help.... many things are climate dependant.

2) When did you dig it up???
- best time is probably spring, when new buds start to swell and open.

3) What kind of soil is that???
- it appears too wet, organic, and water retentive.
 

saucyintruder

Sapling
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Welcome to the Nut House!

Some questions...
1) Where are you located??
- it's good to update your profile to include your location, to get better help.... many things are climate dependant.

2) When did you dig it up???
- best time is probably spring, when new buds start to swell and open.

3) What kind of soil is that???
- it appears too wet, organic, and water retentive.

Thank you for your reply! I'm in Toronto. I dug it up last year around this time and the soil is just regular potting soil, but I'm hoping to take it out, trim the roots, and move it into a proper pot with bonsai mix tomorrow.
 

just.wing.it

Deadwood Head
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Thank you for your reply! I'm in Toronto. I dug it up last year around this time and the soil is just regular potting soil, but I'm hoping to take it out, trim the roots, and move it into a proper pot with bonsai mix tomorrow.
Can you tell if the buds are swelling??

Doing the repotting before the tree starts getting it's juices flowing is more dangerous.
It's best to watch closely and see when the buds it created last year start to swell.
This is referred to as "buds moving" or "starting to move" or grow...

Once the buds are swelling, you can probably go ahead and Repot, but I will warn you, if it's only been dig up for one year, you may not want to cut many roots...
In my experience, conifers take longer to recover from initial digging, or Repotting...

As for the soil, for potted trees, you want a free draining mix, that stays moist, but not wet....
Potting soil, in general, will stay too wet, and not have the necessary air pockets between soil particles to give your tree a healthy balance of air and water.

Most people use a mix of mostly inorganic substrate, and minimal organic....or fully inorganic.

I use fully inorganic, Pumice and Lava (and sometime Haydite).
Though I do put Sphagnum moss on the top to retain moisture, while I'm at work all day..
Some small particles of Sphagnum make their way into the substrate....
But the point is, the lava and pumice hold a fair amount of moisture, but water just rolls straight through, and out the drainage holes.
?
 

bonsaichile

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Since it is so young, and flexible, you could wire some movement into the trunk this coming Fall. As for pruning, you can prune back to the next opening bud now in order to keep the internodes short from the beginning. For bar branches, cut off one of each pair in the Fall.
 

saucyintruder

Sapling
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Since it is so young, and flexible, you could wire some movement into the trunk this coming Fall. As for pruning, you can prune back to the next opening bud now in order to keep the internodes short from the beginning. For bar branches, cut off one of each pair in the Fall.

Hi thank you! I'm just wondering if you can explain what you mean by prune back to the next opening bud. I've read that I should wait for the buds to extend somewhat and then nip them in half or something like that.
 

bonsaichile

Omono
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Yes, you are correct: You should let the new shoots extend somewhat (between 1 and 2 inches, but no more than that) before nipping them IF what you are after is ramification (that is, to make the branch out). At this stage of development, I would concentrate in trying to keep the foliage close to the trunk, compact, because spruces don’t back bud very reliably. If you look closely, you will see that the new growth is concentrated on the tips of the branches, and that the stronger branches will also have new growth closer to the trunk. These are the branches you want to keep. And to keep the tree compact, with foliage down close to the trunk, cut back those strong branches so the new “growth in the tips” is one of those interior shoots. This is something you should do once they reach about an inch in length.
Check http://bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATPiceaPruningstylingandwiring.htm It has a lot of good info on spruces.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
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Welcome to Crazy!

When Healthy....hard pruning in winter seems safest.

If this grows well this year....
I would remove all bar branches from the trunk amd branches witgout much worry.

Sorce
 

RKatzin

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At this stage I would agree with source. All the advice given is for trees much further along in development.
This is a sapling and it has grown very naturally, setting itself to blast off into a great big tree. Almost all the branches will have to be replaced. At the base of most branches you should see smaller twigs shooting off in all directions. Look for one going down and keep it, removing everything else from that hub. These are the branches you can work with as the tree grows and apply all the good advice given.
 

Adair M

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Almost all the branches will have to be replaced. At the base of most branches you should see smaller twigs shooting off in all directions. Look for one going down and keep it, removing everything else from that hub. These are the branches you can work with as the tree grows and apply all the good advice given.

Really? All the branches will have to be replaced?

Geez.

This thing is a stick. A cute little stick, but it’s a stick. Let it grow!
 

RKatzin

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Whoa now! I said almost all and you jumped right over it to all! Jeez wiz, I agree it's a stick, but if you had grown this from a seedling you would not have let it develop the way it has. Now, if you want to proceed you have to get it back to acceptable branches and move forward from there. Why let what is there grow any further when you know it's all wrong. Make the corrections now and let it grow into your tree.
 

PiñonJ

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If you really want this tree to be a bonsai, the best thing you can do is put it back in the ground and let the trunk thicken. If you potted it this year, wait until the buds are swelling next spring to plant it. After it gets thicker, start selecting branches to keep, and consider a trunk chop. As @M. Frary has stated, spruces backbud like crazy. If you try moving towards refinement now, you’ll just end up five years from now regretting that you still have a proverbial stick-in-a-pot.
 

RKatzin

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The general consensus seems to be that you never should have dug this in the first place. I agree, you should have run it over with the lawn mower a few times and then dug it up.
 
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