How to style trident maple

[leatherback]

To avod cluttering a thread o a great tree with side-line discussions, I am starting a solo thread on styling trident maples.

I am going to admit it. I am lost. I know I should not be. But.. All tridents I can recall are styled as the gorgeous maple @Adair M is showing here: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/and-now-for-something-completely-different.47289/

This tree:


In the thread this comment is placed:

These deciduous trees that come out of Japan that are styled in this way. its extremely difficult to buy one and restyle it without cutting off all the branches and redoing the tree. i get that they want the tree to look like a pine, or an 'older' tree with sweeping down branches, but even if they simply styled the branches to rise up at the base and then do the sweep, there would be far more flexibility in re creating an image to different tastes.

I think I agree. It is more a pine than a deciduous tree that I know. Yet.. I never see tridents styled any other way.
As I have a big chunkcy trident that I have just given the first styling, I know I also put the branches like the tree above. Not in the least because I do not know how else to style a trident.

Is there anybody with insights? Maybe some pictures of mature tridents styled very differently?
Or should I not worry and say: All tridents from Japan are in this style, nothing wrong with it?

So confused!

J

 

[Adair M]

To avod cluttering a thread o a great tree with side-line discussions, I am starting a solo thread on styling trident maples.

I am going to admit it. I am lost. I know I should not be. But.. All tridents I can recall are styled as the gorgeous maple @Adair M is showing here: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/and-now-for-something-completely-different.47289/

This tree:
View attachment 344634

In the thread this comment is placed:


I think I agree. It is more a pine than a deciduous tree that I know. Yet.. I never see tridents styled any other way.
As I have a big chunkcy trident that I have just given the first styling, I know I also put the branches like the tree above. Not in the least because I do not know how else to style a trident.

Is there anybody with insights? Maybe some pictures of mature tridents styled very differently?
Or should I not worry and say: All tridents from Japan are in this style, nothing wrong with it?

So confused!

J

My tree, pictured above, is not a “normal” trident maple. It is a Mino Yatsabusa. A dwarf variety with a weeping habit. It’s very unusual. And therefore a poor model for regular tridents.

 

[johng]

its good for the pinus lovers...

 

[leatherback]

A dwarf variety with a weeping habit. It’s very unusual. And therefore a poor model for regular tridents.

although this is an unusual variety, the styling I find very similar to most tridents I come across? Am I wrong?

 

[Davidlpf]

I think I agree. It is more a pine than a deciduous tree that I know. Yet.. I never see tridents styled any other way.
As I have a big chunkcy trident that I have just given the first styling, I know I also put the branches like the tree above. Not in the least because I do not know how else to style a trident.

Is there anybody with insights? Maybe some pictures of mature tridents styled very differently?
Or should I not worry and say: All tridents from Japan are in this style, nothing wrong with it?

So confused!

J

Take a look of Peter Tea's blog you can see different approach to design trident maples there.

Not all tridents are styled in the same way, if you know where to look for examples.

And, of course, if you like more "naturalistic" style, you can see @Walter Pall's trees just right here

Cheers

 

[BobbyLane]

@Djtommy

i didnt buy this one for the pointy top, i bought it for the trunk

so i began to change the shape

 

[Djtommy]

Offcourse not all tridents are styled in the same way, however I do agree that tridents are generally styled different and more “pine” shaped then other deciduous. I’m not exactly sure why that is either. When they look more like the “deciduous “ model it’s more often then not a group of trees or a forest.
a few pics

 

[Djtommy]

@Djtommy

i didnt buy this one for the pointy top, i bought it for the trunk
View attachment 344637
so i began to change the shape
View attachment 344638View attachment 344639

well, this tree didn’t have much to offer besides the chubby trunk to start with. Offcourse you can go the direction you want with it.
but getting a tree like Adair’s just to cut it all of is crazy and not recognizing the strengths of this design

 

[Clicio]

I am going to admit it. I am lost.
...All tridents from Japan are in this style, nothing wrong with it?

Same dilemma here.

 

[BobbyLane]

i think a few may have mis read my post. i didnt suggest that Adair should cut the branches off. nor do i 'hate' other styles lol.

 

[Adair M]

My tree doesn’t ramify easily. For whatever reason, it rarely makes twigs. (Or extending shoots). It prefers to produce “sprays” of leaves from a single bud, like a ginkgo will do.

It is what it is.

Here’s what it looks like in leaf:

 

[BobbyLane]

Offcourse not all tridents are styled in the same way, however I do agree that tridents are generally styled different and more “pine” shaped then other deciduous. I’m not exactly sure why that is either. When they look more like the “deciduous “ model it’s more often then not a group of trees or a forest.
a few pics

most of those i would say are still in the pine style. the horizontal branching in the crown is a giveaway. a tree styled to look like a true deciduous will have ascending branches. up and out. the lowest ones could be dipping or horizontal if one so pleases, but everything else will be ascending. thats the true form and growth habit of a deciduous tree, this allows light to penetrate the whole tree.

 

[BobbyLane]

This one is in the image of a deciduous tree

 

[BobbyLane]

well, this tree didn’t have much to offer besides the chubby trunk to start with. Offcourse you can go the direction you want with it.
but getting a tree like Adair’s just to cut it all of is crazy and not recognizing the strengths of this design

i beg to differ, i think there was a good framework to begin taking it towards my vision of a deciduous tree, to start with i cut back hard and started to re grow
IMG_7647 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

after this i sold it
IMG_7167 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
IMG_7167 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

 

[Adair M]

This one is in the image of a deciduous tree

I would say that is more of an “oak tree style”.

Most maples are more broom style.

Japanese Maples tend to grow more contorted, however. They’re not as apically dominant.

 

[BobbyLane]

My last post was more in response to Tommy saying the images looked more deciduous like. the example above is more similar to how the majority of deciduous trees grow in nature all over the world, with branches that ascend.
even brooms have ascending branches.

 

[BobbyLane]

its very common to see these tridents styled like pines with branches that dont fit the trunk. you could say that the downward sloping of the branches doesnt really allow the branches to grow how they would like to grow naturally. they want to reach up and out towards the light, this isnt being allowed. ok even if you want them downwards, then the tips or terminal buds should be trained up to receive light. but in most cases i see the whole branch is just wired down like a pine, this has no horticultural benefit to the tree and stunts the growth potential. its perfectly fine to style trees like this, to each their own i respect this.
but i kind of get the feeling that a lot of folk dont really understand the hows and whys a deciduous branch grows the way it does.
if anything the pine style thing is more of an aesthetic, it has no benefit what so ever in maximising a deciduous trees growth potential.
im not directing this at anyone, just speaking in general.
for the majority of trees that are in training, i think the last thing you would want to do is stunt your trees growth by directing branches away from the light.

 

[Adair M]

its very common to see these tridents styled like pines with branches that dont fit the trunk. you could say that the downward sloping of the branches doesnt really allow the branches to grow how they would like to grow naturally. they want to reach up and out towards the light, this isnt being allowed. ok even if you want them downwards, then the tips or terminal buds should be trained up to receive light. but in most cases i see the whole branch is just wired down like a pine, this has no horticultural benefit to the tree and stunts the growth potential. its perfectly fine to style trees like this, to each their own i respect this.
but i kind of get the feeling that a lot of folk dont really understand the hows and whys a deciduous branch grows the way it does.
if anything the pine style thing is more of an aesthetic, it has no benefit what so ever in maximising a deciduous trees growth potential.
im not directing this at anyone, just speaking in general.
for the majority of trees that are in training, i think the last thing you would want to do is stunt your trees growth by directing branches away from the light.

Bobby, it’s true that new growth grow up towards the light. On lower branches, the branches higher up get the light, so they have to grow “out” to get the light. As the branch extends, the weight of the leaves pulls those branches down even farther.

LOL. I had maple trees at a house where I lived. I’d prune the lower branches so I could walk and mow the grass underneath without hitting my head. All would be fine in spring and early summer. By mid to late summer, the branches would be hanging down so that I had to duck under the branches as I mowed! It’s the sheer weight of the new wood and leaves that pull the branches down! And they can’t grow UP, because they’d get shaded. They have to get longer and longer to grow out of the shadow of the higher branches of the tree, to the point that the wood isn’t strong enough to keep them from sagging.

 

[BobbyLane]

Ok here's a Trident i purchased a few months back, i dont have it now though.

now this is an import, looks a lot different to ones we've been speaking about.
its more of a stump, will be impressive in a few years once the crown has grown out and been cut back a few times.
this type of Trident gives you a chance to put your own stamp on the tree.
it will develop rather quickly, i wired it up n out there is only one way for the branches on such a stump to go. up n out. suited to a powerful broom style maybe, or just a wide spreading dome

 

[Cadillactaste]

I hope we got permission to dissect another ones tree in a separate post. This sits in my mouth as done in poor taste. I don't understand this post...as I've seen them styled both ways. Depending on the artist's bench. this tree is dramatic...and I absolutely love it. First styling eh @Adair M even more impressive..