Hydroton instead of Akadama

[rockm]

I've tried Akadama. I liked it and what it did. I did not, however, like the price tag. I paid over $35 for a 25 lb bag. I would need about 400 lbs of it to use on all my trees. I am "math impaired" but that seems like alot of money...

Here on the East Coast shipping costs for bags of dirt are quite steep--they are lower for Akadama on the Left coast, as it is the point of entry for most of the stuff into the U.S. That's why it's almost always the guys and gals in Calif., Ore. and Wash. who constantly recommend this stuff.

 

[greerhw]

I'm just a bonsai sheep, if it's good enough for the Japanese, then it's good enough for me...

keep it green,
Harry

 

[Lee]

I collect tree's every year,very old yamadori up to 1000yrs old,from mountainous areas,akadama is excellent,nothing else comes close.It's all to do with the areation it provides,water it dry and you can hear it crackle.The other "must" in bonsai soils is every granule in your pot must be able to be penetrated by roots,if they cant penetrate the granule your pissing in the wind.I have some trees which havent been potted for 5yrs,the akadama is as new,lets get the yen to the pound back to where it should be.

 

[cquinn]

I'm just a bonsai sheep, if it's good enough for the Japanese, then it's good enough for me...

keep it green,
Harry

Yeah, I think they've pretty much got it right. I'm tired of fighting "their" ways. I'm conforming...........nothing but green helmets on deadwood for me buddy! I'm also saving my money to buy good stock. I've decided I'm buying one good piece of material a year, and I'm propogating and growing maples for bonsai because it's been hard finding good decidous material with attention paid to growing the roots right. I'm buying a nice Shimpaku for $650.00 (raw material) this year and by God it will have the bark smoothed, there will be contrast between the live vein and the deadwood, and I will have a green helmet!

 

[cquinn]

I collect tree's every year,very old yamadori up to 1000yrs old,from mountainous areas,akadama is excellent,nothing else comes close.It's all to do with the areation it provides,water it dry and you can hear it crackle.The other "must" in bonsai soils is every granule in your pot must be able to be penetrated by roots,if they cant penetrate the granule your pissing in the wind.I have some trees which havent been potted for 5yrs,the akadama is as new,lets get the yen to the pound back to where it should be.

And this makes perfect sense! I wonder how much space is lost for the roots with the "modern" substrates.

 

[pauldogx]

I switched to akadama from turface, and I've noticed a huge difference in growth and vigor. I don't plant my trees in rocks anymore. I use coarse sand and akadama. Big difference.

cquinn--what are you using as your coarse sand component???

 

[Mike Page]

Smoke, you must be Al. I am just realizing this now. I very much enjoyed your article. I am now trying to locate Gro Power planting tablets in my area. Not having much luck.

Dave, check this link . You may find a distributor in your area.


http://gropower.com/distributors.htm

Good Luck

Mike
==================================================================

 

[pauldogx]

For what its worth ---Jim Doyle at Natures way has settled on a 50-50 mix of akadama and modern soil(a commercial mix we get here in the east--it's haydite, turface, ground brick and bark). He has tried several ratios of akadama vs modern soil and found more than 50% akadama made no difference here in our Eastern PA area.

 

[cquinn]

cquinn--what are you using as your coarse sand component???

Paver sand (No. 2) from Home Depot unsifted. I'm using Warren Hill's mix. It's been working well for me. The unsifted part may seem scary to some people and it was for me, but the proof is in the pudding. I find that most of the fine sand actually washes out over time leaving grit more or less.

 

[pauldogx]

Paver sand (No. 2) from Home Depot unsifted. I'm using Warren Hill's mix. It's been working well for me. The unsifted part may seem scary to some people and it was for me, but the proof is in the pudding. I find that most of the fine sand actually washes out over time leaving grit more or less.

Thanks!! Appreciate it. Definitely going to start using some akadama in my mixes.

I've been using a turface, pumice, granite grit and bark mix. I drains well but I have not seen any "explosive growth" so far eventhough I have been fertilizing quite heavily.

 

[cquinn]

Thanks!! Appreciate it. Definitely going to start using some akadama in my mixes.

I've been using a turface, pumice, granite grit and bark mix. I drains well but I have not seen any "explosive growth" so far eventhough I have been fertilizing quite heavily.

I was using the same thing, and when I switched I found out what a healthy plant is supposed to look like.

 

[greerhw]

Yeah, I think they've pretty much got it right. I'm tired of fighting "their" ways. I'm conforming...........nothing but green helmets on deadwood for me buddy! I'm also saving my money to buy good stock. I've decided I'm buying one good piece of material a year, and I'm propogating and growing maples for bonsai because it's been hard finding good decidous material with attention paid to growing the roots right. I'm buying a nice Shimpaku for $650.00 (raw material) this year and by God it will have the bark smoothed, there will be contrast between the live vein and the deadwood, and I will have a green helmet!

Welcome to the green side, may the force be with you..........keep us posted !

keep it green,
Harry

 

[meushi]

I can't recall the real name of the strata that is commercially sold as Akadama, but it is a soft/decomposed pumice as well... just from a more recent eruption. I have the reference in my library at home, I'll post more info in about 5 hours.

It took a bit longer than expected due to other pressing concerns but here it is

Akadama is the commercial name of Imaichi Pumice

Shichihonzakura is a yellowish pumice found as a top pumice strata in some parts of the prefecture
Imaichi is the red pumice on top of kanuma pumice
Kanuma is the light yellow to totally white (slightly different properties) pumice at the bottom

The uppermost part of the pyroclastics in this area, the Shichihonzakura Pumice and the Imaichi Pumice, which both derive from the Nantai volcano, is distributed only in the northern part of the area.
A volcanic ash bed underlies the Imaichi Pumice, and then comes the Kanuma Pumice. Both beds are distributed throughout this area. The volcanic ash overlying the Kanuma Pumice is composed of
halloysite associated with allophane and vermiculite, when it is covered by the Shichihonzakura and Imaichi Pumices. On the other hand, it is composed of allophane associated with imogolite, gibbsite, and vermiculite-chlorite intergrades, when it has no overburden.

Clays and Clay Minerals of Japan - Toshio Sudo and Susumu Shimoda - (c) 1978 Kodansha Ltd - ISBN 0-444-41238-7

and
Ecological studies on the Nikko Sugi (Cryptomeria Japonica D. Don) Avenue - Hiroshi Usui, Mitsuko Miyazawa, Nobuyuki Miyakawa & Takabumi Iimura (PDF warning) for the confirmation of the color for the respective strata.

 

[cquinn]

It took a bit longer than expected due to other pressing concerns but here it is

Akadama is the commercial name of Imaichi Pumice

Shichihonzakura is a yellowish pumice found as a top pumice strata in some parts of the prefecture
Imaichi is the red pumice on top of kanuma pumice
Kanuma is the light yellow to totally white (slightly different properties) pumice at the bottom


Clays and Clay Minerals of Japan - Toshio Sudo and Susumu Shimoda - (c) 1978 Kodansha Ltd - ISBN 0-444-41238-7

and
Ecological studies on the Nikko Sugi (Cryptomeria Japonica D. Don) Avenue - Hiroshi Usui, Mitsuko Miyazawa, Nobuyuki Miyakawa & Takabumi Iimura (PDF warning) for the confirmation of the color for the respective strata.

Well, where ever it comes from it makes plants fucking green.

 

[Smoke]

Kinda rough language for a family forum.

I didn't even use the quote feature since I would never want to be associated with language like that here.

Thanks, al

 

[grizzlywon]

What I have learned form this thread. Akadama is amazing stuff but expensive. So mix it with other good and less expensive components. Or use it exclusively on special trees.

Bonsai nut will not even edit the F word! (maybe they will eventually, its only been 30min) But yet they will move my thread when I complain about not being able to just read a thread and learn about bonsai without having to read through pages and pages of people arguing about nothing.

I'll say it again, I miss Bonsai Talk! Wonder if that will get me banned from this site?

 

[Mortalis]

I have not tried it myself. I don't see what it could do different than LECA. That is what hydroton is its similar in size and shape therefor air circulation should be similar.. If its humic acid you want many hydroponic fertilizers have that in them. I don't think much could be better than LECA, Diatomite, Lava rock, and coconut husk chips.

 

[IIIROYIII]

roflol
thankyou cquinn
I almost spit my beer onto my computer when i read that.

I would put that into my signature if this wasn't such a family oriented forum

 

[Mark59]

For what its worth ---Jim Doyle at Natures way has settled on a 50-50 mix of akadama and modern soil(a commercial mix we get here in the east--it's haydite, turface, ground brick and bark). He has tried several ratios of akadama vs modern soil and found more than 50% akadama made no difference here in our Eastern PA area.

I use Jim Doyle's mix on my trees as well. It's an excellent soil mix!

 

[Mike Page]

I had some of a post on this thread deleted for (I guess) recommending a commercial product that I use and have been very happy with. I don't get any commission for the recommendation. It is a good product I have used for many years, and I thought it might be helpful to others.

Mike