I don't need to know everything just were to find it.

Anthony

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K taught me that years ago.

So with regards to all the information that deals with soils roots and plant
interaction, I read the book once [ if need be look at the images first ]and if
need be by the second time take hand written notes.

If I need to know something for use either daily, monthly etc. I reread about
4 to 6 times [ memorise ] and take hand written notes.

So for soil microbes, I would use an awareness, but for say proportions and
branching, I would try to fully, deeply understand and memorise.

Thus using compost, comes out of the realm of organic mysticism and enters
the realm of science.

Saw a bit on Bonsai Empire - Bjorn feature - use of ingredients in the soil mix.
akadama, pumice and lava rock.


Hmm now one wonders is akadama biologically active, like compost.
Is lava rock porous, as is pumice and akadama.
If so, then all you are doing is matching properties, when you make a mix
using local ingredients.

The one negative [ for us ] is, it is not sensible to use inorganics that are soft or
easily smashed [ or could become clay ] , it would mess our plant's core, and
probably invite the tree/shrub to grow thick useless roots.
Our mix presently when checked had the root core filled with fine roots only
after 30 year check.

Good Day
Anthony
 

Adair M

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Anthony, pumice is not "porous". It is silica, with air pockets inside. It does have an irregular surface, so water does "stick" to it, but it doesn't absorb water. In fact, it floats!

Scoria, lava, also has an irregular surface, but its generally solid. So it's heavier. Doesn't absorb water.

Akadama is a volcanic clay. Relatively smooth surface, but does absorb water. Over time, it does break down. Being a natural product, its mined, the quality can vary. Soft akadama breaks down faster than hard, and generally, we prefer hard akadama.

In Japan, akadama is used as general purpose "potting soil", not just as a bonsai soil.

Trees (plants) that like more water get more akadama in their mix. In fact many pot deciduous trees in straight akadama. Breakdown is not a problem since deciduous trees can be repotted every year.
 

justBonsai

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If anyone is curious here is a picture of pumice on the micron scale. I took pictures of some pumice recently under SEM for a project I was working on. It is the same pumice I use for my bonsai trees, "dry stall". Resolution is a bit grainy but still shows a lot.

group4_pumice_1000xmag1.jpg
 

Adair M

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Dry stall particles are too small.
 

justBonsai

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Dry stall particles are too small.
I use a 3mm sieve so everything in my pots are excess of 1/8th inch.

Dry stall is cheap and accessible so I choose to use it. Does the job well enough and most of my trees are very healthy. May not be the best...But certainly works for me.

The picture is just a good representative of the structure pumice has. It's not characteristic of just Dry Stall.
 

Anthony

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Ah but Sifu [ @Adair M ] is akadama biologically active ---------- like compost ?

Remember you guys use lots of - fermented - oil seed meal, but it will compost and filter down into
your soil mix.
And become part of the soil equation.

In other words you end up with compost in your soil and it is no longer inorganic.

Also do you guys actually wash clean the soil on your deciduous trees, if need be, yearly ?
Thanks for responding.
Good Day
Anthony

@Solange ,

nicely stated.
 

Adair M

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Ah but Sifu [ @Adair M ] is akadama biologically active ---------- like compost ?

Remember you guys use lots of - fermented - oil seed meal, but it will compost and filter down into
your soil mix.
And become part of the soil equation.

In other words you end up with compost in your soil and it is no longer inorganic.

Also do you guys actually wash clean the soil on your deciduous trees, if need be, yearly ?
Thanks for responding.
Good Day
Anthony

@Solange ,

nicely stated.

Akadama is mined in open pits. It is fired to kill anything that might be living in it, so it can be exported. The firing is not the kind that is done for pottery, to make it hard, its to sterilize it.

The current practice is to use organic fertilizer with inorganic soil. Although you can use chemical fertilizers like Miracle Grow. The organic fertilizers slowly dissolve and feed with each watering. To prevent the residue from the cotton seed meal and similiar organic ferts from clogging the soil, put the fertilizer in tea bags, and lay them on the surface. Works well. We also use fish emulsion, a liquid, once a week.
 

Anthony

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Thanks Sifu [ @Adair M ]

Hmm, one wonders if the akadama then used as soil, slowly goes back to being biologically active ?

Yes, you are essentially organic farmers.

If you have the time or inclimation to read -
http://www.gardenmyths.com/fish-fertilizer-worth-buying/

http://www.gardenmyths.com/organic-fertilizer-real-value/

We use the Miracle Gro lawn fertiliser at 1/3 strength [ 12 N or so ] into moist soil, once a week to
handle our intense sunlight on leaves.
We are fortunate, that for six months, there is no rain, allows for controlled watering, controlled repotting
and around 5 months of fertilizer and the temperature range is 93 deg,F [ half and hour to ten minutes ]
for April / May and down to 70 deg.F. So growth is not slowed.

The oil seed cake in our dry season just sits there, and during the wet season quickly is coated in white fungus.
We can make it from soybean meal, so it's not a problem.
But I figure the compost negates the problems of an artificial fertiliser.
Though we will still test the use of oil meal cakes.

Good Day
Anthony
 

Anthony

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Oh Sifu [ @Adair M ] ,

You forgot this ------ any thoughts -

"Also do you guys actually wash clean the soil on your deciduous trees, if need be, yearly ?"

Your pest of student.
Anthony
 

Adair M

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Oh Sifu [ @Adair M ] ,

You forgot this ------ any thoughts -

"Also do you guys actually wash clean the soil on your deciduous trees, if need be, yearly ?"

Your pest of student.
Anthony
You mean bareroot it? Sometimes. It depends on the tree, the pot, its state of development, whether it's going to change the pot... all kinds of factors come into play. But the point is, you CAN, and the tree would have no ill effects.

Now, if you're trying to build trunk caliper, maybe you might not want to, but if you have a tree in the refinement stage of development, yes, it's probably a good idea. How else are you going to assure you have no crossing roots? And assure your root system is developing evenly 360 degrees around the trunk?

Frankly, most bonsai enthusiasts do a poor job managing the root systems of their trees. Partly because they're afraid of harming the tree, partly due to not knowing good technique, partly due to using poor soil, and partly due to their thinking it doesn't really matter.
 

Adair M

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Akadama is clay. Biologically active? Ever? I don't think so.

Pose this question to @markyscott. He's a geologist and can tell you the science behind it.

They fire it to sterilize the impurities imparted by the mining process. As I understand it, akadama is created by volcanos and is part of the fallout from an eruption. It's found in layers. In Japan, there are forests of cryptomeria trees growing on top of these deposits. They remove the trees, and the top layer of soil, and below that is the akadama and Kanuma in a different layer. So, there is often refuse of stems and leaves and maybe roots found in the akadama after its bulldozed up. Not that any of that stuff was in the akadama, but the strip mining process is messy. So, they fire it to get rid of that stuff. It's not "baked".

But, I'm not a miner, nor a geologist. I'm repeating what I've been told. I may have been told inaccurate information. So I'm not giving any guarantees! ;)
 

wireme

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You mean bareroot it? Sometimes. It depends on the tree, the pot, its state of development, whether it's going to change the pot... all kinds of factors come into play. But the point is, you CAN, and the tree would have no ill effects.

Now, if you're trying to build trunk caliper, maybe you might not want to, but if you have a tree in the refinement stage of development, yes, it's probably a good idea. How else are you going to assure you have no crossing roots? And assure your root system is developing evenly 360 degrees around the trunk?

Frankly, most bonsai enthusiasts do a poor job managing the root systems of their trees. Partly because they're afraid of harming the tree, partly due to not knowing good technique, partly due to using poor soil, and partly due to their thinking it doesn't really matter.


How about a tree well into the refinement stage with inner nebari already well developed? I believe that with trees like this the inner core is rarely refreshed, especially conifers? So quite often akadama will remain for many years in the central portion of the rootball right? It's just one of those things that I wonder about when people say things like this.

[QUOTE="Adair M, post: 463448, member: 13405 Breakdown is not a problem since deciduous trees can be repotted every year.[/QUOTE]

Now I'm not saying broken down akadama is necessarily a bad thing in the central root mass but it does remain for plenty long enough to breakdown in there quite often doesn't it?
 

wireme

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Akadama is clay. Biologically active? Ever? I don't think so.

How are we defining biologically active? Akadama plus roots plus organic fertilizer, of course there will be all sorts of biological activity in there. Pull the tiniest grain you can outta there and drop it into a Petri dish and see what happens! Or put a drop of the drain water under microscope and have a look. I'm a bit confused that this can be a question actually.

I suppose the base material itself after being sterilized is not biologically active but it sure won't stay that way for long.
 

markyscott

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Akadama is clay. Biologically active? Ever? I don't think so.

Pose this question to @markyscott. He's a geologist and can tell you the science behind it.

They fire it to sterilize the impurities imparted by the mining process. As I understand it, akadama is created by volcanos and is part of the fallout from an eruption. It's found in layers. In Japan, there are forests of cryptomeria trees growing on top of these deposits. They remove the trees, and the top layer of soil, and below that is the akadama and Kanuma in a different layer. So, there is often refuse of stems and leaves and maybe roots found in the akadama after its bulldozed up. Not that any of that stuff was in the akadama, but the strip mining process is messy. So, they fire it to get rid of that stuff. It's not "baked".

But, I'm not a miner, nor a geologist. I'm repeating what I've been told. I may have been told inaccurate information. So I'm not giving any guarantees! ;)

I've written a resource that discusses what akadama is that may help clarify some of the questions.

https://www.bonsainut.com/resources/inorganic-soil-reference-sheet.28/
 

milehigh_7

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I've written a resource that discusses what akadama is that may help clarify some of the questions.

https://www.bonsainut.com/resources/inorganic-soil-reference-sheet.28/

@markyscott We are so thankful to have your knowledge here. One need only spend about 10 minutes on the FB groups to understand the value someone like you brings to our humble little Nut House Family. Just to think, you can explain things without insulting people!
 

wireme

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@markyscott We are so thankful to have your knowledge here. One need only spend about 10 minutes on the FB groups to understand the value someone like you brings to our humble little Nut House Family. Just to think, you can explain things without insulting people!

Are you talking about the FB crowd insulting? Apologies to Aidar if I sounded insulting above, just in case.
 

milehigh_7

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Are you talking about the FB crowd insulting? Apologies to Aidar if I sounded insulting above, just in case.

Yea... I was talking about the "teachers" on the FB groups. Scott is just mellow... It is a nice thing and instructional for me.
 
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