I started Collecting my 2013 Hornbeam . wow

Messages
105
Reaction score
1
Location
Deland Florida USA
USDA Zone
9b
Just wanted to show a few pics of hornbeams collected yesterday ( 2/3/2013) they are starting to bud out so I have to work fast. Have 10 more to collect today.

20130203_181455.jpg20130203_181431.jpg20130203_181426.jpg

The one with the deadwood is Epic. The larger one with movement in the base is actually a 6" trunk 6 inches up. I had to go to collect these since the cypress popped two weeks earlier than last year, and they were a week earlier then the year before.
 

Poink88

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
8,968
Reaction score
119
Location
Austin, TX (Zone 8b)
USDA Zone
8b
Great haul!

I think a few can benefit on a little more chop...esp the one in the middle of pic #2
 
Messages
558
Reaction score
1,101
Location
Atlanta
USDA Zone
7b
Very nice, I love hornbeam. I've got my eye on a few for spring...
 
Messages
105
Reaction score
1
Location
Deland Florida USA
USDA Zone
9b
Great haul!

I think a few can benefit on a little more chop...esp the one in the middle of pic #2

After they pop ill figure out where the tops are and give the final cut. I always cut high to leave for possibility of die-back, exp if there are not very many roots. Once they get established, if they don't pop back I can thread graft right where I want the new shoots.
Here are some pics of three potted up.

20130204_160222.jpg20130204_150655.jpg20130204_150700.jpg
 
Messages
105
Reaction score
1
Location
Deland Florida USA
USDA Zone
9b
20130204_160215.jpg
Here is another angle of one of them. As you can see, it has movement above first bend. Ill see where it pops before I commit .
 

Attachments

  • 20130204_150700.jpg
    20130204_150700.jpg
    203 KB · Views: 66

Poink88

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
8,968
Reaction score
119
Location
Austin, TX (Zone 8b)
USDA Zone
8b
After they pop ill figure out where the tops are and give the final cut. I always cut high to leave for possibility of die-back, exp if there are not very many roots. Once they get established, if they don't pop back I can thread graft right where I want the new shoots.
Here are some pics of three potted up.

View attachment 30623View attachment 30624View attachment 30625

Sometimes, by avoiding the problem...you are unintentionally creating it. You have few roots and now they have to support more trunk.

For me, by the time you have the buds, it is too late...you want the chop at the right place to encourage growth there. JMHO.

Good luck!
 

ABCarve

Masterpiece
Messages
2,676
Reaction score
11,452
Location
Girard, PA
USDA Zone
5a
Are they American hornbeam or hop hornbeam?
 

mat

Chumono
Messages
728
Reaction score
72
Location
Central Florida
Nice stuff. I need to come take a look around your place one of these weekends.
 

Poink88

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
8,968
Reaction score
119
Location
Austin, TX (Zone 8b)
USDA Zone
8b
Nice collection. I love your yellow digging tool on the background :cool: (backhoe)

Please promise to let me know your thoughts after a year (or two) about my advise to chop these lower. Whether you did it or not, I want to know if you think you should have (if you didn't)...or you shouldn't have (if you did)...or if how they are is just perfect.

I really want to learn if what I think is right or wrong...for validation or modification. ;)
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,184
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
"For me, by the time you have the buds, it is too late...you want the chop at the right place to encourage growth there. JMHO"

This is a good way to screw up a hornbeam. They rarely bud right at chop sites. They mostly throw buds a few inches, or even more BELOW a cut site, which means you have to leave room. Cutting to the final height you want at collection is shortsighted, as allowing more places for buds is better than less.

A few extra inches or even feet on a candidate tree isn't going to make much difference as to recovery, especially if you've already chopped off 90-95 percent of the tree already.
 

Poink88

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
8,968
Reaction score
119
Location
Austin, TX (Zone 8b)
USDA Zone
8b
This is a good way to screw up a hornbeam. They rarely bud right at chop sites. They mostly throw buds a few inches, or even more BELOW a cut site, which means you have to leave room. Cutting to the final height you want at collection is shortsighted, as allowing more places for buds is better than less.

A few extra inches or even feet on a candidate tree isn't going to make much difference as to recovery, especially if you've already chopped off 90-95 percent of the tree already.

Thanks. My point is general, good to know that Hornbeam should be treated differently. It is however, never about recovery...it is more about putting the growth where I want it (apparently not applicable in this case).

I also believe in cases where we produce the problem by trying to avoid it. Some fear die back so they add more length...not knowingly that the die back is caused by the reduce root to trunk/branch ratio and the root cannot sustain the extra trunk. Not saying it is the case with hornbeam but it could.
 
Last edited:
Messages
105
Reaction score
1
Location
Deland Florida USA
USDA Zone
9b
Thanks. My point is general, good to know that Hornbeam should be treated differently. It is however, never about recovery...it is more about putting the growth where I want it (apparently not applicable in this case).

I also believe in cases where we produce the problem by trying to avoid it. Some fear die back so they add more length...not knowingly that the die back is caused by the reduce root to trunk/branch ratio and the root cannot sustain the extra trunk. Not saying it is the case with Hornbeam but it could.

I have collected many many trees over the years. a conservative estimate at over 1500, starting back in 94'. Probably over 150 with trunks over 8 inches easily. I have been collecting over 100 trees a year this time of year for the past ten years, although not all large beasts. A classic mistake I made in the beginning was trying to cut to a line at first collection. More often than not, they would live, but the wounds I created to angle cut to a bud would die back, making a much larger wound than necessary, or having it die back so low I would have to put it in the ground or a large pot to regrow taper to first cut, ruining why I got the tree in the first place. This happened on every species i collected, from junipers to red maples to Hornbeams to Crape myrtles to hackberries. We then had a few professionals who had a lot more experience collecting a whole lot more material than I. The consensus was I was cutting to a line too soon. Then I started Flat cutting the tops and low and behold, they would pop in areas I hadn't anticipated and most of the time would still pop where I needed them to, giving me more design options and better material. When you collect a tree and cut most of the heavy nutrient receiving roots, it needs to build new vigorous flow pathways and get a root structure underneath it to give storage capacity of nutrients, mineral and moisture uptake ability, and finer feeder roots close to trunk so the next repot isn't nearly so damaging and shocking to the plant. The chance of the tree dying back before the pathways are built is great, hence the added buffer of height, however small it may be. Granted, a tree pulled out of the ground in a growing bed environment has amazing vigor the following spring due to the close compact roots due to periodic chopping of root ball and frequent fertilizing and trimming of tops for smaller wounds. But collected trees, usually collected for their interesting deadwood or movement, tend to be weak to start with and need a while to build up health before serious work can begin. If a serious cut is made to final height the first time at collection without any recovery time or leaving extra foliage to recover and grow roots ( junipers), you may just get a dead tree on these old, weak collections. I have found if you have some extra height, you can always carve and lower to a line once you have the vigor you need because you know the trees history for the past 3 years or so, and be confident it will do what is expected without that X factor. Im not saying leave an extra few feet, more like a few inches.
However, I have found a few types of trees (cypress) collected sometimes only pop at top cut, or only pop in a few places. But that is what intermittent mist is for. Plus, thread and approach grafting is easy with deciduous trees so you can place a branch right where you want them.
My thoughts and reasons, anyways.
 

Poink88

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
8,968
Reaction score
119
Location
Austin, TX (Zone 8b)
USDA Zone
8b
Thanks. It seems my experience is different from yours then. Most of my collected trees (nothing close the qty you get) don't have any die back and always sprouts at the chop mark or around it.
 
Messages
105
Reaction score
1
Location
Deland Florida USA
USDA Zone
9b
Thanks. It seems my experience is different from yours then. Most of my collected trees (nothing close the qty you get) don't have any die back and always sprouts at the chop mark or around it.

Dont get me wrong, most do. But it seems the older and weaker they are (IE interesting deadwood, hollows, old age , etc) the more dieback you get
 

Tieball

Masterpiece
Messages
3,099
Reaction score
3,174
Location
Michigan. 6a
USDA Zone
6a
Curious for an update.

It's nearly spring 2013 in the north, perhaps much warmer by now where you are located. What has happened to the Hornbeams discussed? Do you have any photos that show where budding may be developed or what has happened since that collection?

I am very curious to learn more.
 

fourteener

Omono
Messages
1,476
Reaction score
1,681
Location
Duluth MN
USDA Zone
3
Nice collection. I love your yellow digging tool on the background :cool: (backhoe)

Please promise to let me know your thoughts after a year (or two) about my advise to chop these lower. Whether you did it or not, I want to know if you think you should have (if you didn't)...or you shouldn't have (if you did)...or if how they are is just perfect.

I really want to learn if what I think is right or wrong...for validation or modification. ;)

I have chopped back more than one tree where the first growth came out a lot lower than I wanted. If you chop it high, you can always chop off more later. If you chop it low and you don't get growth where you want it what are you going to do then??

It's never safe to assume that new growth will appear one inch below the chopping point. I see evidence in the yard that he knows what he's doing. My experience says chop high and see what happens.

By the way the nebari on these is spectacular from day one. Nice find.
 
Top Bottom