bonsaichile
Omono
yes, I just realized this thread is 10 years old! lol
I would pay $20,000, sacrafice my first born, and cut off my arm
- Thread starter yenling83
- Start date
Atom#28
Chumono
This thread is awesome! So cool to see this time capsule. Hopefully I will progress this much in ten years.
One question, though: isn’t it hard to dig up yamadori with only one arm?!
One question, though: isn’t it hard to dig up yamadori with only one arm?!
Kyleboldy2003
Mame
Very nice. Glad to see you go for it all and get it in such great success. If you don't mind answering couple question.What was some of the information that was passed along to you from all the people that helped you? How do you find your spots to collect (google maps, look for certain things that stick out that help you) any information would be helpful. If you would like to private message, thanks for your time.Wow, thanks for digging this one up-about 10 years old now @Kyleboldy2003Well... I pretend to be hardcore when it comes to Bonsai, but I could not actually sacrifice my first born because she's too cute and it turns out I love her too much. Shortly after posting this I did go on one of my first real collecting trips and really fell in love with being in the mountains. Shout out to @Eric Schrader, Larry White, Boon and Peter Tea for giving me many tips on how to get started. I guess this thread is evidence that if you want something badly enough, you can make it happen!
Attached are some highlights/trees I've collected. I'm still very passionate about Bonsai and am in this for the long run.
Thank you @Adair M you rock my friend! Thanks @JudyB I just had a son last week, less time for collecting in the short term, but hopefully I can teach the kids a love for the mountains, when are you going to sell me your Silver berry
Colorado
Masterpiece
This thread is incredible!
Just goes to show what hard work and dedication can do....doesn’t hurt to have some talent either.
Congrats @yenling83 , I think it’s safe to say that you no longer need to pay $20k or give up any children to learn a thing or two about yamadori collecting
If I can make half this much progress in the next 20 years I’ll be pleased
Just goes to show what hard work and dedication can do....doesn’t hurt to have some talent either.
Congrats @yenling83 , I think it’s safe to say that you no longer need to pay $20k or give up any children to learn a thing or two about yamadori collecting
If I can make half this much progress in the next 20 years I’ll be pleased
And, yes, he DOES study with the best teacher of bonsai in America!
Warpig
Chumono
10 out of 10 would read again!
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Damn....
Ten years is a long time....
Maybe that daughter wasn't the first
.
Boon got this almost Asian 6 year old apprentice that no one talks about.
Sorce
Ten years is a long time....
Maybe that daughter wasn't the first
.Boon got this almost Asian 6 year old apprentice that no one talks about.
Sorce
yenling83
Omono
Like with many things in life, I would definitely agree that finding a good instructor/teacher/mentor is paramount to improve your knowledge and understanding of Bonsai Technique. I have done what you've suggested in spending a lot of money over the last 10 years on quality Bonsai instruction from Boon, Peter Tea, visiting Aichi-en and watching Mirai-Live. But I still have a long way to go and a lot to learn about Bonsai.
Here's a bit of a rant-
I view collecting Yamadori as a separate category from most things Bonsai related- wiring, styling, maintenance, etc. In some ways I've spent a lot less money on collecting Yamadori. However, I feel like anyone who's had solid success in collecting has still, "paid" for those tree's they've collected. The, "Payment" comes in a different form than money, it's really your time, energy, hardwork, etc.. It comes in the form of the crazy amount of time you have to research getting permits, getting told no 15 times before you get one yes, figuring out where to collect, driving for hours and hours scouting new areas, putting in countless miles going up and down mountains, extracting the trees, hauling heavy trees down the mountain, rolling your ankle, wondering if you can physically get this tree back to the vehicle, getting lost, feeling like you've just done the most insane cross fit work out ever, getting everything ready for aftercare, sifting pumice and the list goes on. I also think that the quality of Yamadori you collect is directly proportionate to the number of miles you put in if you have good areas to scout. There's some collectors like Dan & Steve from Back Country Bonsai and Randy Knight that I really look up to, they have truly "paid" for the trees they've collected in this second manner I've described.
BrianBay9
Masterpiece
Agree. Anyone who tells you collected trees are free is crazy.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
I tell beginners something like this whenever they say "hey, I can dig up all the trees I want. They're free." Collecting trees is not a "free" way to get bonsai, nor is it really bonsai (at least for the first five years). It's tree maintenance in a container. Different goals and sets of rules...Collecting trees costs substantial "Sweat equity" and some dead mistakes...
yenling83
Omono
@Kyleboldy2003 asked me a few questions via PM, I hope it's okay i'll share here-hope that's okay.
First thing I didn't understand is that Collecting CA Junipers is generally a totally different thing compared with collecting Sierra Junipers. One of the biggest reasons for this is the environment in which they grow, mainly the fact that CA junipers grow in the dirt and Sierra grow on granite. Both are exposed to the harsh environment which give them all those beautiful characteristics we want for Bonsai. Sierra Junipers are often naturally dwarfed because their root systems are confined to small pockets of soil. Their roots often cannot extend further into the soil because the granite rock is confining them. This is fantastic for Bonsai, because under certain situations you can remove/collect a tree with a nice root system already. The majority of Sierra's that grow in Granite should not be collected as the roots dive deep into granite cracks and would die upon collecting.
With California Junipers they are removed from dirt, sand, clay, etc. They don't grow on rock and extracting them requires a completely different tool and skill set to extract them successfully. I have collected CA and Utah Juniper from dirt with some success, however i'm not an expert in that area and I've decided to focus only on collecting trees from rock where I know my success rate will be very high. I believe that in general the survival success rate for CA junipers is not very pretty, because it's much more challenging to collect a substantial system of fine roots. I know of a few people who have very high success rates with them, but I also know of many people who have low success rate. Often people getting into collecting don't consider aftercare as much as they should. It's important to have a plan for every little aspect of a trees care after you collect it.
This advice only applies to, "pocket trees" with a nice root system after being collected. I think the single best aftercare resource you could get your hands on currently is the Mirai Live video where Randy Knight breaks down exactly what he does. I recommend sifted pumice, a nice tight box, being able to move your trees to different micro climates within your yard, learning to get the correct balance of water and oxygen, leaving the majority of an intact root ball with the original field soil and leaving your newly collected trees on the ground.
To find good locations, start with searching online. There are a million ways to do it, but then at a certain point you'll have to find some roads and start driving/exploring. Then you'll have to find out who owns or manages the land. I've put in a lot of miles, sometimes I'll drive for a few days and not find any good spots. Def stay away from National parks, always ask permission. I've found that asking Permission is an art in itself. Always be extremely friendly, try and build some rapport, and explain that you will leave no trace minus the specimens you want to collect. If you can ask in person that's always better. Maybe find somewhere where you can get permits, then offer to trade locations with a collector who has permits in another location. With the mountains, first you'll spot big old ones growing on rock, you want to find trees with crazy deadwood, twist, curve, ibo jin, etc. then you'll want to look for the little old ones around those big old ones
For collecting in the Mountains, I use a large pry/wrecking bar, a steel frame pack to tie trees to for the hike down, a sharp folding hand saw, full sized Loppers, trash bags and electrical or packing tape. I use to bring a lot more, but that's what I use 95% of the time. It's great if you can find good trees close to your vehicle, but putting in the miles will get you the best trees. I've also drove many gnarly back roads via 4x4 to find good trees. If you want to really get after it, I recommend being in good shape, at least that way you'll enjoy your experience more and you can cover more miles. When I started collecting I weighed 215 and would struggle to run a few miles. I'm down to 185 now, quit drinking so much, eat healthier and got into trail running. It wasn't all motivated by getting better at collecting, but it's much easier for me to put in the miles while collecting now and I have a lot more fun when out collecting. I like the idea of getting in shape to be a good collector, might be a little silly of an idea, but it is some of my motivation to get in shape. Hope this helps, thank you for asking
River's Edge
Masterpiece
Amen!
Some day your kids should see the Island, they could search for a pet shore pine!
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Jeremiah, you have an advantage over most people! Your smile and friendly attitude would charm almost anyone into letting you into anywhere you want to go! (And if that doesn’t work, have your lovely wife bat her eyes at ‘em few times! Access granted!!!). Lol!!!@Kyleboldy2003 asked me a few questions via PM, I hope it's okay i'll share here-hope that's okay.
First thing I didn't understand is that Collecting CA Junipers is generally a totally different thing compared with collecting Sierra Junipers. One of the biggest reasons for this is the environment in which they grow, mainly the fact that CA junipers grow in the dirt and Sierra grow on granite. Both are exposed to the harsh environment which give them all those beautiful characteristics we want for Bonsai. Sierra Junipers are often naturally dwarfed because their root systems are confined to small pockets of soil. Their roots often cannot extend further into the soil because the granite rock is confining them. This is fantastic for Bonsai, because under certain situations you can remove/collect a tree with a nice root system already. The majority of Sierra's that grow in Granite should not be collected as the roots dive deep into granite cracks and would die upon collecting.
With California Junipers they are removed from dirt, sand, clay, etc. They don't grow on rock and extracting them requires a completely different tool and skill set to extract them successfully. I have collected CA and Utah Juniper from dirt with some success, however i'm not an expert in that area and I've decided to focus only on collecting trees from rock where I know my success rate will be very high. I believe that in general the survival success rate for CA junipers is not very pretty, because it's much more challenging to collect a substantial system of fine roots. I know of a few people who have very high success rates with them, but I also know of many people who have low success rate. Often people getting into collecting don't consider aftercare as much as they should. It's important to have a plan for every little aspect of a trees care after you collect it.
This advice only applies to, "pocket trees" with a nice root system after being collected. I think the single best aftercare resource you could get your hands on currently is the Mirai Live video where Randy Knight breaks down exactly what he does. I recommend sifted pumice, a nice tight box, being able to move your trees to different micro climates within your yard, learning to get the correct balance of water and oxygen, leaving the majority of an intact root ball with the original field soil and leaving your newly collected trees on the ground.
To find good locations, start with searching online. There are a million ways to do it, but then at a certain point you'll have to find some roads and start driving/exploring. Then you'll have to find out who owns or manages the land. I've put in a lot of miles, sometimes I'll drive for a few days and not find any good spots. Def stay away from National parks, always ask permission. I've found that asking Permission is an art in itself. Always be extremely friendly, try and build some rapport, and explain that you will leave no trace minus the specimens you want to collect. If you can ask in person that's always better. Maybe find somewhere where you can get permits, then offer to trade locations with a collector who has permits in another location. With the mountains, first you'll spot big old ones growing on rock, you want to find trees with crazy deadwood, twist, curve, ibo jin, etc. then you'll want to look for the little old ones around those big old ones
For collecting in the Mountains, I use a large pry/wrecking bar, a steel frame pack to tie trees to for the hike down, a sharp folding hand saw, full sized Loppers, trash bags and electrical or packing tape. I use to bring a lot more, but that's what I use 95% of the time. It's great if you can find good trees close to your vehicle, but putting in the miles will get you the best trees. I've also drove many gnarly back roads via 4x4 to find good trees. If you want to really get after it, I recommend being in good shape, at least that way you'll enjoy your experience more and you can cover more miles. When I started collecting I weighed 215 and would struggle to run a few miles. I'm down to 185 now, quit drinking so much, eat healthier and got into trail running. It wasn't all motivated by getting better at collecting, but it's much easier for me to put in the miles while collecting now and I have a lot more fun when out collecting. I like the idea of getting in shape to be a good collector, might be a little silly of an idea, but it is some of my motivation to get in shape. Hope this helps, thank you for asking
leatherback
The Treedeemer
wireme
Masterpiece
Nice rant.
I just put out empty boxes in the spring and wait for the yamadori rains.
Funny, I thought it was snow in the great white north. And when it melts around your boxes in the spring, there the Yamadori are.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Great outline, not easy as most new people think. Nor should it be. When in doubt find a collector that is already in business with a good success rate and buy from them.@Kyleboldy2003 asked me a few questions via PM, I hope it's okay i'll share here-hope that's okay.
First thing I didn't understand is that Collecting CA Junipers is generally a totally different thing compared with collecting Sierra Junipers. One of the biggest reasons for this is the environment in which they grow, mainly the fact that CA junipers grow in the dirt and Sierra grow on granite. Both are exposed to the harsh environment which give them all those beautiful characteristics we want for Bonsai. Sierra Junipers are often naturally dwarfed because their root systems are confined to small pockets of soil. Their roots often cannot extend further into the soil because the granite rock is confining them. This is fantastic for Bonsai, because under certain situations you can remove/collect a tree with a nice root system already. The majority of Sierra's that grow in Granite should not be collected as the roots dive deep into granite cracks and would die upon collecting.
With California Junipers they are removed from dirt, sand, clay, etc. They don't grow on rock and extracting them requires a completely different tool and skill set to extract them successfully. I have collected CA and Utah Juniper from dirt with some success, however i'm not an expert in that area and I've decided to focus only on collecting trees from rock where I know my success rate will be very high. I believe that in general the survival success rate for CA junipers is not very pretty, because it's much more challenging to collect a substantial system of fine roots. I know of a few people who have very high success rates with them, but I also know of many people who have low success rate. Often people getting into collecting don't consider aftercare as much as they should. It's important to have a plan for every little aspect of a trees care after you collect it.
This advice only applies to, "pocket trees" with a nice root system after being collected. I think the single best aftercare resource you could get your hands on currently is the Mirai Live video where Randy Knight breaks down exactly what he does. I recommend sifted pumice, a nice tight box, being able to move your trees to different micro climates within your yard, learning to get the correct balance of water and oxygen, leaving the majority of an intact root ball with the original field soil and leaving your newly collected trees on the ground.
To find good locations, start with searching online. There are a million ways to do it, but then at a certain point you'll have to find some roads and start driving/exploring. Then you'll have to find out who owns or manages the land. I've put in a lot of miles, sometimes I'll drive for a few days and not find any good spots. Def stay away from National parks, always ask permission. I've found that asking Permission is an art in itself. Always be extremely friendly, try and build some rapport, and explain that you will leave no trace minus the specimens you want to collect. If you can ask in person that's always better. Maybe find somewhere where you can get permits, then offer to trade locations with a collector who has permits in another location. With the mountains, first you'll spot big old ones growing on rock, you want to find trees with crazy deadwood, twist, curve, ibo jin, etc. then you'll want to look for the little old ones around those big old ones
For collecting in the Mountains, I use a large pry/wrecking bar, a steel frame pack to tie trees to for the hike down, a sharp folding hand saw, full sized Loppers, trash bags and electrical or packing tape. I use to bring a lot more, but that's what I use 95% of the time. It's great if you can find good trees close to your vehicle, but putting in the miles will get you the best trees. I've also drove many gnarly back roads via 4x4 to find good trees. If you want to really get after it, I recommend being in good shape, at least that way you'll enjoy your experience more and you can cover more miles. When I started collecting I weighed 215 and would struggle to run a few miles. I'm down to 185 now, quit drinking so much, eat healthier and got into trail running. It wasn't all motivated by getting better at collecting, but it's much easier for me to put in the miles while collecting now and I have a lot more fun when out collecting. I like the idea of getting in shape to be a good collector, might be a little silly of an idea, but it is some of my motivation to get in shape. Hope this helps, thank you for asking
wireme
Masterpiece
Yeah, ok, you got me.
But training that bear wasn’t nearly as easy as it sounds either.
You can do a surprising number of things with one arm if you have enough determination, willpower snd creativity. My left hand has been paralyzed for over 26 years and I can do pretty much whatever I put my mind to, Including digging.
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