Ib the ground vs. in the pot: a comparison
- Thread starter bonsai barry
- Start date
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
picture is worth how many posts????? A thousand? Nice comparison.
yenling83
Omono
Wow! Difference is huge.
Brian Underwood
Chumono
Very nice post Barry! Thank you for the clear comparison!
GrimLore
Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
WOW! We have Bald Cypress Saplings here and the ones in the ground are doing worse then the potted and they were both planted in the same medium and watered same, etc. Our maples all all in pots but doing good. I am confused at best but so goes the experience 
GrimLore:
"WOW! We have Bald Cypress Saplings here and the ones in the ground are doing worse then the potted and they were both planted in the same medium and watered same, etc. Our maples all all in pots but doing good. I am confused at best but so goes the experience"
In my experience, trees planted in the ground will grow slower for the first year until they are established, then they will take off and grow faster than the ones in your pots. See Brent's site here for some helpful info: http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/soils.htm
"WOW! We have Bald Cypress Saplings here and the ones in the ground are doing worse then the potted and they were both planted in the same medium and watered same, etc. Our maples all all in pots but doing good. I am confused at best but so goes the experience"
In my experience, trees planted in the ground will grow slower for the first year until they are established, then they will take off and grow faster than the ones in your pots. See Brent's site here for some helpful info: http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/soils.htm
bonsai barry
Omono
WOW! We have Bald Cypress Saplings here and the ones in the ground are doing worse then the potted and they were both planted in the same medium and watered same, etc. Our maples all all in pots but doing good. I am confused at best but so goes the experience
I have some pines in pond baskets that have surpassed their brothers in the ground. I'm thinking that this year the groundlings will catch up.
daygan
Chumono
I think this is a good example of a good experiment that needs a larger test group, and more species-specific tests so that we can note any possible differences between various species.
Also, what were your constants in this experiment? (i.e. fertilizer routine, watering habits, sun light intensity)
Also, what were your constants in this experiment? (i.e. fertilizer routine, watering habits, sun light intensity)
bonsai barry
Omono
LOL, I think the conditions and constants would stand up to your rigorous standards; both treats were neglected equally.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
This may be the case for some species, or perhaps if you do a lot of root pruning before planting. But even with that, I have found that many trees planted in the ground will significantly outperform similar potted trees even in the first year. The difference in growth rate will also tend to increase each year that a tree is in the ground.
As I learned the hard way, it is possible for a tree to quickly get out of control in the ground, especially the root system.
Chris
bonsai barry
Omono
Chris, I agree that roots are a significant issue with trees in the ground. That is why I dug up the almond... to clean up the roots. I buy porcelain dinner plates at the Dollar Store and plant trees on top of these. I then did up the trees every two, three or four years, depending on the species. In this way I can keep the roots in order and it isn't too difficult of a chore. I did about a dozen trees on one Saturday.
I have about forty trees in the ground (about 1/3 of all of my trees). I pack them close together and it doesn't take up too much room.
daygan
Chumono
Now, that's important information. If, for example, you rarely or never fertilized, the tree in the ground would have still received a good amount of nutrients that were organically available, and grown accordingly, whereas the tree in the collander would have been significantly deprived, and grown less in proportion.
Jason
Chumono
I'd say they even take 2-3 years to catch up. But then....watch out! So if you want to develop a tree in under 3 years I'd keep it in a pot. If your timeline is longer the ground is definitely quicker (but less refined). Ask yourself if you need trunk thickness or refinement.
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Have any of you tryed doing this with just a larger pot? like one say 2 or three times the size it should be in?
I read somewhere that the above statement is used to thicken a tree trunk as a substitute for plants a tree in the ground for 2-5 years. Also found a nice picture of a tree that had been grown this way for I think 3 years...I'll try and find the linky.
http://mnbonsaiforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=64
soo that tree spent a year in the ground and two in that wooden planter
like nursery landscape tree stock I believe those grow most their young lives in those 5 gallon plastic things ( in some cases where burlap isn't used, if berlap was used it was likely dug from the ground then put in the berlap).
or does anyone have any knowns to put forth about this idea?
green houses in my area may also do things differently than yours.
I read somewhere that the above statement is used to thicken a tree trunk as a substitute for plants a tree in the ground for 2-5 years. Also found a nice picture of a tree that had been grown this way for I think 3 years...I'll try and find the linky.
http://mnbonsaiforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=64
soo that tree spent a year in the ground and two in that wooden planter
like nursery landscape tree stock I believe those grow most their young lives in those 5 gallon plastic things ( in some cases where burlap isn't used, if berlap was used it was likely dug from the ground then put in the berlap).
or does anyone have any knowns to put forth about this idea?
green houses in my area may also do things differently than yours.
small trees
Chumono
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I don't remember the source but I think I read that using an oversize pot can actually be detrimental to the health of the tree. I could be completely wrong, but if anyone knows where I might have heard this, please chime in. It might have been on this forum. I'll look around for a source.
Jason
Chumono
daygan
Chumono
Yes, potentially bad - water tables and such. But an oversized air pot which does not hold a water table would be something else to experiment with, I think...(like with my Ulmus parvifolia in a laundry basket)
nathanbs
Omono
AboveBeyond
Shohin
Barry, do you have pictures of your trees? I plant a dozen last fall but wasn't sure how much space to give them. I'm worried that I may have planted them too close to each other.
daytona1911
Mame
Brent knows his stuff for sure. Ill tell you my experiences, but I only have 15 years growing in ground verses pots compared to Brent's 30+ so take it for what its worth. The trees seem to take a couple of years to realize they are in the ground when taken for a container, but then they grow 10x faster than in a pot. Elms, oaks, and other deciduous trees seem to be the same, unless they are seeedlings and planted right into ground from the start, then there is no lag time and they grow way faster, however the bases are not nearly as good, and if you pull them and arange them , they do slow down for a time till they get reestablished. Don't bother to try to do any ramification in the ground. The internodes are few and far and all growth is course. its a losing battle.
The conifers also grow fast in the ground, but the pines get a nematode here so I don't put them in the ground anymore. The junipers and other types seem to do great, but cut a 1/4 of the root ball once a year so you maintain a close amount of feeder roots upon collection or you will have fatalities .
I like the starting in a pot to get even rootage 2 years, moving to the ground for 3 years, pulling and arranging roots and putting it in a root maker at that point for tons of feeders close, with sacrificial branches to help heal large wounds created from cutting of large leaders from ground training. This is a newly made plan from others that have done this in the past, but I do have a few examples to show. Its kind of the best of both worlds. I also grow just in root makers to kind of get not as fast of growth, but more control over branching and close rootage.
My two cents.
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