Identification Help (beautiful, great buy!)

ArelLongIslandNY

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Hey ! I bought these two trees ($250) in a meet up off of “Offer Up” application. I have been researching to identify. I still can’t figure it out. Any help would
be appreciated !

Stay safe and stay Bonsai.
 

ArelLongIslandNY

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I uploaded pictures to the “Attach files” button when I posted. Are they pending moderation ? Sorry to be that new guy !

I thought maybe the smaller plant was a willow but the branches didn’t match up with willow’s , then I thought it was a ficus willow leaf, but again the branching didn’t match.

I think the bigger tree might be a juniper variety. Not sure.

Uploaded again , lets try this again. Thank you in advance.
 

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ArelLongIslandNY

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For some more clarification 😬

...PS can’t even imagine repotting that big one or where to start. 😅
 

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Graft

Shohin
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WOW!! The big one is wonderful, it really has loads of potential. No Expert here, but it's some sort of Juniper. The experts will be along shortly to shoot me out of the water. The other one looks like a fig but as I am dreadful at naming both tropicals and conifers I would wait for someone who won't mislead you. Loving the dead wood though!!!
 

misfit11

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Wow! You scored big!! When I first read the OP I was like, "Why would anyone pay $250 for something that they don't know what it is?!". Then after seeing the photos, It's clear you made an excellent decision. The larger tree is indeed a Juniper. It looks most definitely like Shimpaku and one of very excellent quality. This thing was a steal for $250.

....on second thought, you got totally screwed. I'll take it off your hands for $150 so you can recoup some of your $$
 

ArelLongIslandNY

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I’ll split the difference “misfit” , just give me $75 cool?

Yeah the people that sold me the two plants didn’t have a clue about anything. I wonder how they got these plants...was a closed down Koi fish and bonsai nursery close by, out of bussiness.

Still focused on the smaller plant no clue what it is.
 

misfit11

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You mentioned that you didn't know about repotting this tree. With a tree of this quality and apparent age, you are going to need someone to help you so it can be done correctly. Find a local club and ask around for a hand with this. There might be a workshop that you can get it to (might be difficult with the pandemic though). This tree is very nice and has fantastic potential to be something truly special (it needs to be styled and wired out though) and it would be a shame to lose it due to inexperience and a rushed repotting. Now is the time to do it and you really don't want to wait much longer. April is getting too late. Find a club and make some contacts now.
 

ArelLongIslandNY

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You mentioned that you didn't know about repotting this tree. With a tree of this quality and apparent age, you are going to need someone to help you so it can be done correctly. Find a local club and ask around for a hand with this. There might be a workshop that you can get it to (might be difficult with the pandemic though). This tree is very nice and has fantastic potential to be something truly special (it needs to be styled and wired out though) and it would be a shame to lose it due to inexperience and a rushed repotting. Now is the time to do it and you really don't want to wait much longer. April is getting too late. Find a club and make some contacts now.
Yeah man for sure on the repotting and club. I took up Bonsai in the beginning of March around corona and since then I have amassed a nice little collection. Through reading and numerous videos I’ve been trying to learn , with not the best results ha. I looked for some clubs in Long Island NY and actually joined one but doesn’t seem to in depth. Kind of just doing a trial and error with my ramification attempts, styling, pruning and what not. Not sure about phoenix graft or what that is even. I feel like that dead wood on the Juniper seems like a separate entity like was never part of the tree and just placed there (deadwood) so the Juniper can grow around it ?
 

misfit11

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Yeah man for sure on the repotting and club. I took up Bonsai in the beginning of March around corona and since then I have amassed a nice little collection. Through reading and numerous videos I’ve been trying to learn , with not the best results ha. I looked for some clubs in Long Island NY and actually joined one but doesn’t seem to in depth. Kind of just doing a trial and error with my ramification attempts, styling, pruning and what not. Not sure about phoenix graft or what that is even. I feel like that dead wood on the Juniper seems like a separate entity like was never part of the tree and just placed there (deadwood) so the Juniper can grow around it ?
Is that right? I actually considered the fact that this might be a phoenix graft, or Tanuki, but then thought it looked like the live vein was connected to the deadwood in such a way that it was unlikely. If it is indeed a Tanuki then the value will be considerably less and some thumb their noses at them. Most clubs won't show them.
Nonetheless, it's a nice tree with great potential. Get it checked out by someone with experience.
 

Shibui

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Not sure about phoenix graft or what that is even. I feel like that dead wood on the Juniper seems like a separate entity like was never part of the tree and just placed there (deadwood) so the Juniper can grow around it ?
Sounds very much like phoenix graft juniper where a younger tree is attached to a larger piece of dead wood to make it look like an older tree. That would also explain the price paid.
 

darryl1

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Awesome find on that juniper!
PictureThis app says the 2nd tree is a Cape Jasmine Gardenia.
 

ArelLongIslandNY

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Awesome find on that juniper!
PictureThis app says the 2nd tree is a Cape Jasmine Gardenia.
Hmm alright thanks. No flowers on mine yet and it seems like the guy kept it outside forever. Top of soil is all messy. I checked out the Juniper and it was difficult to distingusih if it was grafted or not. Have to do some raking on top portion of soil.
 

ArelLongIslandNY

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***UPDATE on Phoenix Graft
I found a nail in the juniper going right into the dead wood. Big bummer, been thinking about just getting rid of the dead wood and replanting the juniper on its own and seeing what I got going. Got a Blue Atlas Cedar today tho from https://www.soonerplantfarm.com/

$100 5’ 2 gallon tree. Ugh not sure where to start but not a lot of growth close to the trunk or at the apex. All the growth is in middle of tree.
 

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sorce

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been thinking about just getting rid of the dead wood and replanting the juniper on its own

I thought folks were going to start arguing about the graft.

It's more valuable to you as a "piece of shit" phoenix graft, to sell to someone who thinks it's wonderful.
Taking it apart is removing about $225 of that purchase price.

Sorce
 

ArelLongIslandNY

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I thought folks were going to start arguing about the graft.

It's more valuable to you as a "piece of shit" phoenix graft, to sell to someone who thinks it's wonderful.
Taking it apart is removing about $225 of that purchase price.

Sorce
I mean I think aesthetically it’s pleasing- but being made aware of the “phoenix graft” ideology in the Bonsai community, I kind of feel a disservice to the art is all. That’s why it kind of crossed my mind to deconstruct it.
 
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