if I cut this will it die? scots pine

Aaronkslater

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thanks for looking,

I'm not very experienced with pines, but I'm concerned that if I cut A and B from this tree that the small branch between them would die. I'm considering developing that small branch as the new apex. What is your opinion? I believe there is an issue with sap not continuing to flow to a small branch when a large branch near it is cut? Is this true?
 

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Cypress187

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In theory i don't think it should die because there is still a connection to the roots and there is green on the ends.
 

fourteener

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I would cut them off a couple of inches above the branch you want. That's the kind of room you need to go back and Jin the branch later. Pines are notorious for pumping sap to wounds to help keep the wood from rotting. Thus you see deadwood on conifers, but deadwood seems to rot fast on Deciduous trees. It's not just a look that bonsai people like. It is a function of how the different trees work in real life. Sap flowing will not be a problem.
 

Aaronkslater

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OK great. I had either heard or read that in situations like this with a pine the large branch above a very small branch is pulling the sap up the tree that is keeping the small branch alive. Cut the large branch and the small one might not have the ability to survive alone. It made a little sense to me but I admit sap flow is not something I totally understand.
thanks for both your inputs.
 

Cypress187

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Let's all try to refrain from giving advice if we know absolutely nothing about the subject at hand, shall we?
I'm on this forum to learn, i used the word 'think' (and most of the times i also mention im not an expert). I will try to make it more obvious it's my opinion and not fact, even tho i think i was almost right.
 

Brian Underwood

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Wow. My point is that some people might mistake you for someone who knows something useful, and take your advice. Do you see how this might be bad? If I know nothing about ficus (which I don't), I will not give ANY advice about ficus, ever. Sure, I have some basic horticultural knowledge, but none about that specific plant. So why then would I start typing out my hypotheses for everyone on the internet to read? Where does that get me, and where does that get the reader?

My apologies for posting this to your thread about Scots Pine, but I felt that the issue should be addressed more often. It's too common for people here to give advice when they have no business doing so.
 

Potawatomi13

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As there will still be plenty of green foliage left on the tree after removing your chosen branches the remaining ones should be just fine. Sometimes(or often?)if removing too much of the green foliage which generates food for the roots on conifers it will kill the tree. I've done this unfortunately.
 

Eric Group

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thanks for looking,

I'm not very experienced with pines, but I'm concerned that if I cut A and B from this tree that the small branch between them would die. I'm considering developing that small branch as the new apex. What is your opinion? I believe there is an issue with sap not continuing to flow to a small branch when a large branch near it is cut? Is this true?
I think taking that much off right around such a small branch certainly COULD kill it. I have had that happen in the past... When removing two large branches on the opposite side of the base of a smaller one, you are leaving very little wood for the tree to feed that remaining branch. Whether it lives or not, you will have two big scars right at the base of that branch, it will be an eye sore and something that will probably never completely look right. You could certainly take the suggestion of removing those larger branches down to stubs and making a Jin out of them.
 

sorce

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You gotta cut em both long to keep that lil feller alive.

Look into cutting the one in front flush later (years)to heal over, back jin, 2 Jin's will look funny.

And just for kicks, let's say Cypress said nothing and this thread got backburnered, then OP would get no answers.

Cypress, I think, and in theory, are plenty indicators for a reader.
If they can't understand language, they will fail anyhow!

Sorce
 

Brian Van Fleet

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I'm concerned that if I cut A and B from this tree that the small branch between them would die. I'm considering developing that small branch as the new apex.

What is your opinion? I believe there is an issue with sap not continuing to flow to a small branch when a large branch near it is cut? Is this true?

The answer to your question is, "not necessarily". If you removed branches A and B, the branch remaining (D in this photo) would not necessarily die. You'd want to leave stubs that are about twice as long as the width of the branches to help ensure the new leader reroutes any water lines over the next few months, and carve them away over the winter.

Now...do you want to take a longer view of this project? Real opinion? The area you circled as "C" is your tree. Everything above it is sacrifice branch. Develop the upright green arrow as the new leader (allow 2 buds to grow, 1 gets to run free and be a sacrifice branch, one needs to be restrained to keep short internodes). Do the same with te branch marked with the left-pointing green arrow as the first branch.

With your proposed leader, you'd be lucky to achieve the first image in 8 years; but likely even more abrupt transitions from one trunk section to the next. It will be tall, awkward, and stiff, with no low branches.

With my proposed plan, you'll likely achieve the second image in 5-6 years, and have a more compact structure to refine over the the next 3-4 years.

Ultimately, it's your tree, but at the moment, you have options. I think the second tree has much more potential.
 

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milehigh_7

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Wow. My point is that some people might mistake you for someone who knows something useful, and take your advice. Do you see how this might be bad? If I know nothing about ficus (which I don't), I will not give ANY advice about ficus, ever. Sure, I have some basic horticultural knowledge, but none about that specific plant. So why then would I start typing out my hypotheses for everyone on the internet to read? Where does that get me, and where does that get the reader?

My apologies for posting this to your thread about Scots Pine, but I felt that the issue should be addressed more often. It's too common for people here to give advice when they have no business doing so.

That's what I tried to tell this person the other day... I don't think they understand that people follow the advice they get here and that they could be responsible for a big mistake.
 

Aaronkslater

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thanks brian van fleet,

that is just the kind of perspective I was hoping to get by sharing this tree here. I need to digest your suggestions but the pictures you shared really to help me visualize the possible futures. I'm not fond of image number one either. I'm not sure if you can tell but the base of this tree is currently about 6 inches across. The cut your proposing would be about 5 inches across, would it really heal over?
 
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