I'm gonna make brooms.

[cmeg1]

I am pretty excited.My Grey Bark Elm seeds were in the mail today.I got 10 packs for the price of 5.I am going to use the technique in Bonsai Today#71 on growing bonsai from seed.I have seen how the Zelkova sprout from seed in that little slingshot shape.They definately seem like the classic Broom tree.The article shows how to treat them in their first year.
Anybody have elm brooms out there?,post a pic.The pic I posted is from one of the seed packet's and is similiar to what I am going to do.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Have fun! Zelkovas grow quickly, but the one on the photo is at least 10 years old, so plan on doing other things in the meantime.

The closest thing I have to a broom style would be this hawthorn. Although I started with a decent trunk, everything else was grown over the last 12 years.

 

[cmeg1]

Cool Hawthorn!Thanks.

 

[yamins]

wonderful!

 

[pwk5017]

zelkova grow like weeds. I have 100 that vary from 3/4-1" and this will be their 3rd growing season! Talk about results. I will let most go until they hit 3" then we will be attempting a couple brooms. They respond so well to using the tourniquet method.

 

[Adair M]

Here's mine. I rescued it from the bonsai shop where it had been neglected.



When I repotted it this year, I screwed the bottom of the trunk to a piece of plywood, then spread the roots out and positioned them with screws. I didn't insert the screw in the root, but used the screws to position them where I wanted. The chopsticks are to make the roots undulate up and down. Evenually this one will be potted in a wider,but shallower container.

 

[akhater]

I don't want to hijack the thread but if anyone has a good tutorial about how to make broom I'm looking for one. I've read some about the V-cut but, to be honest, the end results of these tutorials were not credible to me

thanks

 

[Adair M]

It works.

The problem with the technique is you tend to get knobs where the new branchs start at the cut. There are ways to mitigate that.

Take a look at my tree. It has a degree of knobbiness where all the branches start. I didn't start this one, but if the branches had been bound with some raffia right at the base beginning early fall of the first year they were developing, the knobbiness would be less.

My tree, by the way, is an airlayer.

 

[garywood]

Zelkova is indeed vigorous and like most in the Elm family they would prefer to grow a few large roots rather than many smaller ones. This can be overcome after a couple rounds of rootwork. I personally like to get the roots under controll before starting the top to slow down the "Vigorous" growth. The callus growth otherwise tends to bulge at the cuts. The basic two broom cuts are made for either two or three branches emerging close to the same height or multiple branches at the same level. The cuts are different. Where two or three emerge a longer V is made into the trunk and the tapering cut to the branch is convex. When multiple branches emerge at the same level the top cut is flat and a concave cut is made. I only have a shot of one in training. It's a larger tree and will finih out about 24"-30" and not very good shots either.
Wood
http://thingsofwood-gary.blogspot.com/

 

[cmeg1]

I don't want to hijack the thread but if anyone has a good tutorial about how to make broom I'm looking for one. I've read some about the V-cut but, to be honest, the end results of these tutorials were not credible to me

thanks

Wow,I did not realize this post had any more remarks.I am using the 'slingshot method' it is in Bonsai Today Magazine #71.It is a seedling method that will give results similiar to the seed packet at the beginning of my thread.I now have a bunch of them sprouted,though I am only using three.The article is neat.After sprouting from seed you put in heavy shade to elongate the growth before it splits in the slingshot shape that they almost alway's do from seed then you trim leaves at varying lengths and do not let any strong branches grow and they keep sprouting.In winter you tie the slingshot up straight and cut tips straight across and makes a nice broom form from year 1.You leave it tied up for a couple months in winter til everything stiffins up in a more sharp broom shape.Sorry if I confused you.You should buy the Magazine to see the pictures and various lengths to cut leaves and the tying up in winter.ZELKOVA of course.

 

[Adair M]

cmeg1,

I tried that about 30 years ago. I started about 50 seeds, got about 30 to germinate, and then I culled 10 out because they produced one-sided root systems. I must have worked on the remaining 20 for about 4 years, but none of them ever really gave me the "look" I wanted. I eventually gave them all to the Bonsai club and let them raffle them off.

The tree I posted earlier, I just took to the bonsai shop and left it for a couple of weeks for boarding while I travel. The shop owner (who I had purchased it from) said, "Wow, that is a manufactured tree!". It's been airlayered to have radial roots, and chopped to have branches.

To combat the knobbiness, I have taken to strangling it with hose clamps:

 

[cmeg1]

cmeg1,

I tried that about 30 years ago. I started about 50 seeds, got about 30 to germinate, and then I culled 10 out because they produced one-sided root systems. I must have worked on the remaining 20 for about 4 years, but none of them ever really gave me the "look" I wanted. I eventually gave them all to the Bonsai club and let them raffle them off.

The tree I posted earlier, I just took to the bonsai shop and left it for a couple of weeks for boarding while I travel. The shop owner (who I had purchased it from) said, "Wow, that is a manufactured tree!". It's been airlayered to have radial roots, and chopped to have branches.

To combat the knobbiness, I have taken to strangling it with hose clamps:

View attachment 23905

Oh yea? I was looking for something smaller and more dwarfed.I am thinking the following growing season I may just start stripping leaves to dwarf the little things and maybe even feed very sparinly from 2nd year onward and just watch my little broomsticks achieve mature bark.I think leaf stripping will stunt them.I want mine little(ish).Thanks for the heads-up,appreciate it.I might add that I found it very difficult to make cutings out of zelkova seedlings,I could not even do it,I don't know if the rooting harmone killed them or it just would'nt work,they shriveled in less than 5 minutes.I ended up just putting the tallest ones straight into small flat bonsai pots without the cutting treatment.

 

[fore]

cmeg1,

I tried that about 30 years ago. I started about 50 seeds, got about 30 to germinate, and then I culled 10 out because they produced one-sided root systems. I must have worked on the remaining 20 for about 4 years, but none of them ever really gave me the "look" I wanted. I eventually gave them all to the Bonsai club and let them raffle them off.

The tree I posted earlier, I just took to the bonsai shop and left it for a couple of weeks for boarding while I travel. The shop owner (who I had purchased it from) said, "Wow, that is a manufactured tree!". It's been airlayered to have radial roots, and chopped to have branches.

To combat the knobbiness, I have taken to strangling it with hose clamps:

View attachment 23905

Adair, I was thinking of trying that on a couple large healing chop scars. Do you think I should score the scar roll, and then use the clamps, or just put them on without reinjuring the scarring? It's on that lg Trident stump if you saw that.

cmeg1, I think you should listen to Brian and Adair. You'll be much happier saving a bit of money and buying some good elm stock, and have something to work on now. But Good Luck either way

 

[Adair M]

Chris,

I didn't score my zelkova when I put on the clamp. I'm hoping the clamp will just keep it from bulging more, and meanwhile the trunk down below might get a little larger, and the branches above get a little larger, so the existing bulge might be less obvious. It's an experiment, not a proven technique.

I did see your large trident... you could try it on it, but to my eye, tridents look fine with healed scars. Zelkova brooms look best with the smooth trunks that then break into the multiple upward sweeping branches.

I think the best result would be obtained if when the V cut is made, an additional step of hollowing out some of the wood just inside the cambium layer would allow the new bud/branch to swell in towards the center rather than out. That and also being sure to bind the V to stop the swelling outwards. Zelkova is bad to swell when healing wounds.

Cmeg1,

I'm not sure I understand your comment about "mature bark" on a zelkova. Zelkova have a smooth grey bark. It will turn grey in about 2 years. It shouldn't ever get rough.

Stripping leaves does have it's purpose, but it's not to constrain growth. You can induce more twigginess (ramification) in a season by stripping leaves. It induces a "false fall" and if the tree is healthly it will produce a new twig from the bud that exists at the base of every leaf. Edit: (When you "strip leaves", I recomend that you cut them off, don't pull them off. If you pull them off, you may destroy the dormant bud at the base of the leaf.) But, again, you don't have a healthy tree if you withhold fertilizer. The zelkova leaves will reduce in size as ramification increases. In other words, as you get more twigs.

Think of if this way: A tree of a certain size will want to produce enough leaf surface area to catch enough light energy to sustain it. If it has only a few branches, it will produce big leaves on those branches to get that surface area. However, if the tree has lots of branches, it can produce that surface area with more, but smaller leaves.

A similiar concept works with the roots. More small feeder roots is better than a few big larger roots. Also, the tree will stay "balanced". A tree with small feeder roots is more likely to produce multiple branches (ramification) than a tree with large tap roots. The roots and canopy are mirrored in each other.

Now, all that said... zelkova are vigorous growers. You will have a challenge keeping them at shohin size and balanced. Not that it can't be done, but it will be a challenge. It is difficult to keep the internodes (the distance between branches) to less than an inch.

I'm planning on keeping my zelkova at about 24 inches.

Please post pictures of your progress! I'd love to see how your little brooms develop.

 

[cmeg1]

"But,again,you don't have a healthy tree if you withhold fertilizer."
Adair,I must admit ,I am with you on the fert thing.I almost cannot stand to not fert a tree,I need them growing.The only reason I got the idea to fert sparingly the zelkova is from Chan's book 'Choosing and Growing Bonsai'.He recommends zelkova only be fed 3 or 4 times a year with a weak general fertilizer(chemical).I actually attempted that on a previous attempt at zelkova from seed(I bailed on the idea),but the seedlings looked great in the fall.They had no dominating branches and they were fine.He sais zelkova will grow strong branches and you lose the fine ones.My Bonsai Today article sais' also that it is most important that no strong branches grow.Maybe that is how you make them (little) brooms.It is weird,I have been fertilizing normally the zelkova's,but I kinda' want now to proceed with just perhaps a monthly application of dyna-gro.It will be an experiment.I betcha' they will live.That is really what I like about the zelkova on the seed pack at the beginning of my thread.It seems to be growing and looking mature,but with a sparten look to it.Yea,I think I am definately going to try it that way,I will post pictures of progress to see how it works.

 

[rockm]

If you fertilize strongly, you get strong growth, especially with strong trees like zelkova. Limiting the strength of ferts, not the timing will result in more even growth...Use half or quarter strength at more regular intervals, instead of fulll strength at longer....

 

[kanesham]

I have tried to find the bonsai toady issue 71 but have had no uck. Can you please explain a little more indepth the technique that they use to grow brooms from seed.
thanks

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I have tried to find the bonsai toady issue 71 but have had no uck. Can you please explain a little more indepth the technique that they use to grow brooms from seed.
thanks

It's available here: http://www.stonelantern.com/Bonsai_Today_Magazine_Bonsai_Tree_How_to_Care_p/btb.htm

 

[jk_lewis]

It's available here: http://www.stonelantern.com/Bonsai_Today_Magazine_Bonsai_Tree_How_to_Care_p/btb.htm

Always better to get it from the Horse's Mouth - even if you have to buy it.

 

[kanesham]

it will cost me over forty dollars to get as I live in Australia