petegreg

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One more and the last post in this thread... Here is the picture of the elm mentioned above foliage taken last summer. Do you think it looks missing something, declining...?
file.jpg
And this is unachievable this year because of canopy rebuilding, replacing too thick branches.
Just wanted to share my experiences, if forced to defend myself and no proofs accepted...
 
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philart

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How do you determine which chinese elm is to be inside or outside?
Flip a coin?
The ones that survive inside are the ones you should grow ;)

I can't remember where I read it, maybe Jerry Meislik, but there is variation within a species and so if you find a particular example that grows well inside that's the one you should propagate. That is how domestication works, selecting for desirable traits.
 

philart

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I know, they would be happier outside. Some people say the indoor bonsai books are stupid. So I have got and have read lot of them, followed online care sheets... I'm not an advocate of indoor growing, but it works. I've just taken a pics of some trees I have mentioned above...sorry for mobile pics.
View attachment 105672 View attachment 105673 View attachment 105675 View attachment 105674
What is the fourth plant here?
 

petegreg

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Podocarpus or Buddhist pine. Indoor propagation - I' ve got "all families" acquired from mother plants, podocarpus, carmona, sageretia, ligustrum...backing them up if some is lost.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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@philart - how successful indoor growing will be depends entirely on what your indoor environment is, and what you do to modify your indoor environment. In other words, not all windowsills are the same. You need to decide whether you just want to do windowsill growing, or an under lights garden. You need to be aware of the temperature range of your home or apartment. IF you are planning on creating a light garden, you need to decide what level of light you are willing to provide. Once you know these answers, only then can you really make a list of good plants for 100% indoors bonsai.

Most windows block 35% to 75% of incoming light, so full sun indoors in a south window is at best the equivalent to part shade outdoors. If you do windowsill only, you need to stick with species that prefer a shaded environment, even if you are growing in a south window. Ficus are the most adaptable choice on most lists.

If you keep your home relatively cool, some tropicals will be off your list. If you have an elderly parent or relative living with you and the heat is on even in summer, there are some tropicals you can do that won't grow when temps are below 75 F for any length of time. Buttonwood comes to mind, it basically refuses to grow unless it is above 75 F, preferably above 80 F during the day, and not too cool at night. For us northerners, on our windowsills, buttonwood sits still, with no growth except the one or two months of the year when it is so hot we can't keep up with the air conditioning. For rapid growth, Ficus generally prefer warmth too. They will sit semi-dormant for most during the 9 or 10 months of cooler weather. Eugenia & Malpighia will grow anytime the temperatures are above 60 F. Ixora wants heat, for me it is dormant 90% of the year.

So catalog your conditions. Make note of your indoor temperature range. Summer and winter. If you run your home cool in winter, a lot of the subtropicals will be quite happy with that. Windowsills can be quite cold in winter, a fact that can be used to advantage with subtropicals. Also the cold coming off the glass can be a real problem for true tropicals.

I use a light garden. As other suggested, check out your local Hydroponics grow shop. The marijuana industry has the latest and greatest info on state of the art growing techniques. My set up is antique, I still use High Pressure Sodium Lamps, not very efficient, but quite bright. I also use T-5 fixtures that were state of the art 10 years ago, but new LED have far outstripped the efficiency of T-5. They will soon go the way of the dinosaur and the HPS and incandescent bulbs. Check out the latest in LEDs. Go to a shop, you need to see them in operation. If it is not painful to look directly at a light, it is not bright enough for an indoor light garden. Marijuana and tomatoes under lights need roughly the equivalent of 50% to 75% of direct sun. This will be bright enough to grow "full sun" bonsai. A T5 fixture 12 inches above foliage will be about 25% of full sun. So check out your hydroponics shop and look at what the latest is. I have a Bougainvillea shohin that lives 100% of its life under T5 lamps, and it blooms 2 or 3 times a year. The bougie is over 5 years in my light garden. It is possible to grow just about anything under lights if you get the intensity right and the temperature range right. I even got normal compact candles and normal needles on a Japanese black pine when brought out of cold storage in January and allowed to grow in the light garden - in the brightest spot in the light garden. But I DO NOT recommend trying to do JBP indoors 100% of the time, but part of the year can work. My JBP was a one time experiment.

Remember, you can to some degree make up for lower light intensity with longer day length. I run my lamps 18 hours a day, 365 days a year. Over 18 hours and there is data to suggest you are wasting electricity, there is data showing improved growth right up to an 18 hour day length. Majority of trees do not use day length to set flowering, with Poinsettia and Chrysanthemum species being notable exceptions. There are others, but they are relatively few.

I really do recommend Ficus as your "main tree" for indoor bonsai - it will be your most tree like species that is not fussy about light intensity, humidity and temperature. Windowsill or Light Garden, Ficus will perform. If your set up is bright, Eugenia and Malpighia are my second choices. If you house temps are relatively cool, Rhododendron simsii hybrids - the florist's azalea, (not Satsuki) are a good one to try, also gardenia.

The list @petegreg supplied is pretty good.

Hope this helps you to plan. Remember, some tropicals like cool-ish temps and some are heat lovers (thermophiles), do your research before you buy.
 

petegreg

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Thanks Leo.

Considering possibilities... If your apartment is air-conditioned, the air humidity is probably low. We do not need AC here, it was nice warm day today and the interior air humidity is 52%. It can go up to 65% in the winter and I've recorded 45% as the lowest.

Heating... I keep the trees on the window sills in the rooms where there're two windows and tho heaters, one is on and one off and this window is good for threes. On the other hand Ficus and Duranta can stand the heating on max.

And...hm, there's a couple of species that can tolerate lower light levels. Ficus and duranta are kept on my N-facing window, I know it sounds crazy, but they've never been tauched by the Sun... More low light level species - zanthoxylum, murraya, podocarpus... They thrive, can grow if we need the growth, but for refinement they will need more light for sure.

So right, know your environment.
 

Ironbeaver

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You might want to get a light meter/light meter app and a hygrometer/thermometer, preferably with a high/low function. Find out what the "base line" of your growing area is, and see if you can modify or improve it. Try different species (affordable versions first) and see what works and what doesn't.
 

philart

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I really don't have the space for large grow lights, but have been using one of the small foot square LEDs available on amazon. I've had my ficus close under it for quite a while now and it's done better this summer than ever before in terms of growth.

I tried light meter apps for a while but found them very inconsistent, so purchased a dedicated light meter. It's really helpful in choosing positions and determining how effective a light is.
 

KingJades

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I really don't have the space for large grow lights, but have been using one of the small foot square LEDs available on amazon. I've had my ficus close under it for quite a while now and it's done better this summer than ever before in terms of growth.

I tried light meter apps for a while but found them very inconsistent, so purchased a dedicated light meter. It's really helpful in choosing positions and determining how effective a light is.
Which light did you pick up?
 

miker

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Uh oh, I am worried about my buttonwood (Conocarpus erectus) then. It is with me in PA and I had been doing the 2-step, putting it near the south facing front steps on 60F plus days. This corner of the house is probably 10F warmer than ambient during the afternoon on sunny days. Lately and for the foreseeable future, it will be sitting on a table near a dim window in the dining room. The house is kept between 57-67F this time of year, so I see trouble ahead. Time to get/build a makeshift clear plastic box(maybe a fish tank), a plant heating pad and a grow light, if I don't want my 20+ year old yamadori buttonwood and 15 year old baby jade to slowly die.

Other than that, it is great being up here and not worrying about cold being a problem with my trees and the landscaping. Orchids, palms and bonsai were my primary hobbies in Fl, now that I am up north bonsai will take center stage.
 
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