Indoor Greenhouse Experiment

[Random User]

I have great success with a combination of 2700 K CFL and 6500 K CFL bulbs together in a "Y" socket... I put them about 15 - 30 cm (6 - 12") over the plant that is sickly or I want to focus on.

It's cheap and easy, and easily sourced... "if" doing this improves the colour and health of your plants, you'd automatically know that your problem was insufficient light.

... also, the 2700 bulb is for flowering, the 6500 is for general growth and health, so if flowering isn't in the cards, you don't have to use it.

I have been told the florescent tube bulbs are only supposed to be used for one year, after that, the spectrum can change and cause problems for plants... but I haven't messed with them enough to say one way or the other really...

 

[Redwood Ryan]

I have been told the florescent tube bulbs are only supposed to be used for one year, after that, the spectrum can change and cause problems for plants... but I haven't messed with them enough to say one way or the other really...

The spectrum in the bulb doesn't change, it just weakens. The bulbs should be replaced every 6 months or so. After that the spectrum is the same, just weaker.

 

[GrimLore]

That is one of the strange things...I'm familiar with the ficus leaf-drop-in-response-to-stress syndrome, which seems to happen much more quickly.

The Willow Leaf my Wife has had for years never responds the same to coming indoors. Every year is different. Some years it drops all quickly, sometimes just a few here and there, Sometimes look like yours, sometimes never skip a beat... The only thing I do different when it pouts in any fashion is water less and it comes back just fine and during that time no fertilizer. I went in the plant room just now and one retusa is loosing a leaf a day and has been for several weeks while it is showing new buds. The other retusa never skipped a beat and continues to look fine... Odd is all I can say.

Grimmy

 

[Random User]

The spectrum in the bulb doesn't change, it just weakens. The bulbs should be replaced every 6 months or so. After that the spectrum is the same, just weaker.

OK, thanks for the clarification... I couldn't really see how the spectrum would change, but like I said, I never messed with them much... I find the CFLs easier for the few plants I have, and only use grow lights for getting peppers, etc. started in the spring.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

The Royal Ficus pushed an aerial root over the last week or two, so today I used a straw to guide it into the soil.


More details on the blog:

http://wp.me/p1XfXS-mE

 

[f1pt4]

I did something similar. I put a bunch of varieties of ficus, and a schefflera in their pots, onto a seedling tray. covered the whole thing with the accompanying humidity dome, and kept humidity between 90-99%.

I read in an old post on IBC a couple years ago, where a grower from Denmark grows her ficus' in a fishtank i believe. with very very high humidity I recall her saying something that air circulation isn't an issue, when humidity is that high. Her ficus' are jaw dropping beautiful. I don't know what happened, but I don't think she's a member there anymore.

So far my humidity dome experiment is super fruitful. Ficus cuttings root within DAYS. Yes, days.

Schefflera has aerial roots galore, with roots splitting into more roots. All the ficus' are exploding with new growth. Every ficus has new aerial roots, some of which I'm cutting off. Back budding frenzy. Best part. With humidity so high, I only have to water every couple of weeks!

next to nill air circulation. except for the top vents being 1/3 open.

I can post some photos here, but I don't want to hijack. Or I can start a new thread.

Nice ficus' Ryan.!!

 

[thams]

I did something similar. I put a bunch of varieties of ficus, and a schefflera in their pots, onto a seedling tray. covered the whole thing with the accompanying humidity dome, and kept humidity between 90-99%.

I read in an old post on IBC a couple years ago, where a grower from Denmark grows her ficus' in a fishtank i believe. with very very high humidity I recall her saying something that air circulation isn't an issue, when humidity is that high. Her ficus' are jaw dropping beautiful. I don't know what happened, but I don't think she's a member there anymore.

So far my humidity dome experiment is super fruitful. Ficus cuttings root within DAYS. Yes, days.

Schefflera has aerial roots galore, with roots splitting into more roots. All the ficus' are exploding with new growth. Every ficus has new aerial roots, some of which I'm cutting off. Back budding frenzy. Best part. With humidity so high, I only have to water every couple of weeks!

next to nill air circulation. except for the top vents being 1/3 open.

I can post some photos here, but I don't want to hijack. Or I can start a new thread.

Nice ficus' Ryan.!!

I'd love to see them. I've been considering this technique for shohin and mame willow leafs. I was always worried about the lack of circulation though.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

I did something similar. I put a bunch of varieties of ficus, and a schefflera in their pots, onto a seedling tray. covered the whole thing with the accompanying humidity dome, and kept humidity between 90-99%.

I read in an old post on IBC a couple years ago, where a grower from Denmark grows her ficus' in a fishtank i believe. with very very high humidity I recall her saying something that air circulation isn't an issue, when humidity is that high. Her ficus' are jaw dropping beautiful. I don't know what happened, but I don't think she's a member there anymore.

So far my humidity dome experiment is super fruitful. Ficus cuttings root within DAYS. Yes, days.

Schefflera has aerial roots galore, with roots splitting into more roots. All the ficus' are exploding with new growth. Every ficus has new aerial roots, some of which I'm cutting off. Back budding frenzy. Best part. With humidity so high, I only have to water every couple of weeks!

next to nill air circulation. except for the top vents being 1/3 open.

I can post some photos here, but I don't want to hijack. Or I can start a new thread.

Nice ficus' Ryan.!!

Ahh yes, Yvonne G. She doesn't use a fish tank, but rather a metal frame covered in plastic. She also uses LEDs.

Air circulation is something I'd like to have, but at the moment whenever I water the trees I leave the plexi off for a few minutes to let fresh air in and old air out.

 

[f1pt4]

Ahh yes, Yvonne G. She doesn't use a fish tank, but rather a metal frame covered in plastic. She also uses LEDs.

Air circulation is something I'd like to have, but at the moment whenever I water the trees I leave the plexi off for a few minutes to let fresh air in and old air out.

Yes that would be the one!

 

[f1pt4]

Here are a few photos.

Description - leaves start out healthy dark green, then start to develop a blotchy/pale/yellow appearance. Gradually the amount of yellow increases, and the leaf eventually drops. This takes a couple of weeks or more, it is not a quick process. That is one of the strange things...I'm familiar with the ficus leaf-drop-in-response-to-stress syndrome, which seems to happen much more quickly. Some of the leaves on the tiger bark also develop a dark brown discoloration during the process (see third photo).

Pattern looks a lot like some nutrient issues but it occurs over the entire plant. Usually problems due to specific nutrient imbalances tend to focus on either young or old leaves, not all at once.

Trees were subjected to gradually decreasing light levels during the fall (moved from full sun to shade, then indoors under lights). They did experience some pretty cool nights into the upper 30s or low 40s. Maybe a delayed result. Maybe I should just defoliate them all at once. This has been a yearly thing, annoying because the main reason I got some tropicals was to have some plants to fuss with during the winter. But since they pretty much stop growing anyway, even with the HID/LED lighting...not really serving the purpose!

Before anyone suggests it...there are no mites or scale.

1) Willow leaf ficus leaves on plant...can see the blotchy yellowness developing.

View attachment 124775


2) Willow leaf ficus, more advanced leaf yellowing. I plucked this one for the photo, this is the underside of the leaf. Pattern is chlorotic with green veins.

View attachment 124776

3) Tiger bark leaf, showing yellowing and browning. Not all the leaves get the browning.

View attachment 124777

FWIW I found this post very helpful. http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/looking-for-info.24855/ Post #18 and #21 especially.

Those leaves looked like some of mine when I brought them in under lights. I grow under HOT5's 8 light, 6 light and 4 light banks. After doing calculations for my setup, I realised I have been giving my plants way TOO MUCH light!

I run all of my banks at 4 lights now, and as far as growth and green leaves are concerned they're all loving it. Except my portucalaria's which are having another problem, but it's not caused by light from what I gather.

 

[f1pt4]

I'd love to see them. I've been considering this technique for shohin and mame willow leafs. I was always worried about the lack of circulation though.

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/some-of-my-butcherings.20629/page-4

Started one here. Post #73.

 

[coh]

FWIW I found this post very helpful. http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/looking-for-info.24855/ Post #18 and #21 especially.

Those leaves looked like some of mine when I brought them in under lights. I grow under HOT5's 8 light, 6 light and 4 light banks. After doing calculations for my setup, I realised I have been giving my plants way TOO MUCH light!

I run all of my banks at 4 lights now, and as far as growth and green leaves are concerned they're all loving it. Except my portucalaria's which are having another problem, but it's not caused by light from what I gather.

Thanks for the link, I had missed that discussion.

It's hard to believe that, for me, it's been too much light (though I agree that the leaves have "that look"). I picked up a decent luxmeter when I got the LED fixture, and just measured the values at the top of the canopies. Under the 400 W MH fixture, the values average about 20,000 lux and peak around 25,000. Under the LED, the values average around 60,000. The MH produces much more radiant heat, so the trees have to be kept further away than the LED fixture.

I've never measured full sun (which is where the trees were kept during the summer), but I'm sure it's above the range of the meter. Several references on line indicate full sun is 100K lux or a bit higher. So they're getting quite a bit less light than when they were outside. Now, maybe it's the quality of the light that is different, or maybe the trees are showing a delayed response to cold temps that were experienced in the fall. I don't know. Maybe next year I'll bring them in earlier to avoid that, unless I just decide to sell them and be done with the experiment.

I have that very issue with my willow leaf ficus. I have that same 2ft Agrobrite light system ~6 -8in above the trees in my greenhouse. Under the lights, every single leaf now looks unhealthy with yellow tips (2 or 3 were even frosty white) and has looked like that for the better part of 2 months. Temp ranges between 74 - 86, humidity between 50 - 80%. It's by far the most temperamental little bastard I've ever had.
How are you tackling your issue if I may ask?

Well, for one of the willow leafs I'm just leaving it under the MH fixture without any other special treatment. It's in a sort of lull phase, putting out a few new leaves while dropping a few more old leaves. The other one (along with the tiger bark) is now in a plastic enclosed mini-greenhouse (basically plastic draped over a simple PVC frame, like Ryan showed) and under the LED fixture. I've got it closed up pretty good and can maintain 90-95% humidity. I've had roots growing up out of the soil. The trees in there seem to be responding to the increased humidity and are putting out more growth, but the rest of the foliage still looks crappy. So really to soon to tell if this is an improvement. Depending on how things go, I might add a heating mat to warm up the enclosure at some point. I do open it up every day or two for some fresh air, but no signs of any fungal or mold problems.

 

[coh]

They sometimes pout several weeks after being indoors, many defoliate, and they all seem to come back nicely. Seems to be random and also seems to happen more when growing in Northern States outdoors all Summer. I also have noticed it helps on a lot of tropicals to let them experience a few very cold nights before bringing them in so they do defoliate - Over the years it "seems" a lot of them need some sort of dormant time to do good.

Grimmy

Interesting info, thanks for sharing! In my case, it seems to be the same pattern every year. Trees grow well and look very healthy in late summer, bring them in and within a few weeks to a month, the foliage starts yellowing and dropping, with little to no new growth. I then usually defoliate the few remaining leaves when I put them back outside.

I think I mentioned that the reason I got tropicals was to have something to mess with during our ridiculously long winters. But since the trees (especially the ficuses) don't really grow much when inside, there's no real benefit to having them. I came close to selling them this past year, maybe this winter will finally push me to do that.

Chris

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Hey Chris,


How high above the trees do you have your Onyx lights? I've heard mixed opinions...

 

[GrimLore]

But since the trees (especially the ficuses) don't really grow much when inside, there's no real benefit to having them. I came close to selling them this past year, maybe this winter will finally push me to do that.

Honest if they don't bud and require trimming during the Winter something is "off". Ours stay under T8 full spectrum lights 16 hours per day, Humidity at 50 or 55 percent with moderate but 24 hour a day circulation. They get very light watering after leaf drop for 2 - 3 weeks and then bud a LOT. After that we resume 2 - 3 day watering and 1/2 dose Fertilizer weekly. From that point on they must be trimmed every couple of weeks as the new growth is rapid and leggy if left uncontrolled. Perhaps your Humidity is to low? I suggest that as ours do good in what most consider weak light and I won't up it as they would just be a bit much to handle. Serissa and Bougainvillea are for more aggressive growers in similar conditions and require bi-weekly trimming as is...

Grimmy

 

[f1pt4]

Interesting info, thanks for sharing! In my case, it seems to be the same pattern every year. Trees grow well and look very healthy in late summer, bring them in and within a few weeks to a month, the foliage starts yellowing and dropping, with little to no new growth. I then usually defoliate the few remaining leaves when I put them back outside.

I think I mentioned that the reason I got tropicals was to have something to mess with during our ridiculously long winters. But since the trees (especially the ficuses) don't really grow much when inside, there's no real benefit to having them. I came close to selling them this past year, maybe this winter will finally push me to do that.

Chris

I brought in my tropical a earlier this year, whereby not giving them an opportunity to sit below 10C. my HOT5s give off about 6C of heat when only 4 bulbs are on. I found when 6-8 bulbs are on the heat generated was over 10C.
I found that ~ 35,000 LUX between a constant 20-26C made my ficuses very happy. Ambient humidity is around 40% with daily misting. Sometimes they get 1 misting sometimes 5, depending on my work schedule.

If you have shohins perhaps consider putting them into a humidity chamber. In mine I keep it at 90-99% humidity, and my little ficuses are absolutely loving it.

Increase your humidity. Stabilize your temps. Find the balance of light, and I think you'll get everything you wanted and then some from your Tropicals over the winter months!

I posted a link a few messages back, piggy backing off of @Redwood Ryan 's experiment. Same same but different. Made a huge difference in the happiness factor of my ficuses.

I know it doesn't look like much, but it's miles ahead better than what I experienced over the last two winter growing seasons.

Good luck!

Ps. I just realized you are doing a humidity dome experiment too. Give it some time. I'm sure your growth will bounce back!

 

[coh]

Hey Chris,
How high above the trees do you have your Onyx lights? I've heard mixed opinions...

Ryan, right now the onyx is about 18" above the highest parts of the canopies. There is, of course, a layer of plastic between which cuts the light intensity a bit, especially with some condensation on the inside. I haven't read much about the recommended heights, what have you seen and what are you using?

Honest if they don't bud and require trimming during the Winter something is "off".

Yes, I think I've already established that much

Ours stay under T8 full spectrum lights 16 hours per day, Humidity at 50 or 55 percent with moderate but 24 hour a day circulation. They get very light watering after leaf drop for 2 - 3 weeks and then bud a LOT. After that we resume 2 - 3 day watering and 1/2 dose Fertilizer weekly. From that point on they must be trimmed every couple of weeks as the new growth is rapid and leggy if left uncontrolled. Perhaps your Humidity is to low? I suggest that as ours do good in what most consider weak light and I won't up it as they would just be a bit much to handle. Serissa and Bougainvillea are for more aggressive growers in similar conditions and require bi-weekly trimming as is...

Grimmy

They are now in the humidity "tent" so we'll see what happens. I am seeing some new growth. However, I've tried a similar experiment in the past and the results were underwhelming.

As I've noted elsewhere, other tropicals - especially brush cherry and jaboticaba - do quite well, it's the ficuses that seem to suffer the most. I don't have any serissas or bougies for comparison.