Intelligent conversation of the Literati

bonhe

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Thank you! The tree has very beautiful character and bark characteristics naturally! Will need to move slowly with care to do it justice! Very pleased with the recovery and foliage formation. New candles this spring are strong for Shore Pine and I feel the opportunity for back buds on the younger branches will allow the apex to fill in. It needs to move left a bit. Then after full recovery, thin out for more of a sparse image.
Wiring is difficult with the thick bark needing protection while the branch needing a gentle persuasion. Will be using a bit heavier wire and closer to a 60 degree wrap. Not after any sharp bends.
You are welcome.
If I were you, instead of wiring, I would use cut and grow and might be combined with pulling technique.
How tall is the tree?
Thụ Thoại
 

River's Edge

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You are welcome.
If I were you, instead of wiring, I would use cut and grow and might be combined with pulling technique.
How tall is the tree?
Thụ Thoại
The tree is currently 32 inches if I recall correctly! will finish possibly one inch shorter in the end.

Cut and grow for back budding for sure, selective needle removal to encourage needle bud positioning.
Progress will be slower because my primary focus is root development to support the new planting angle. When repotting I had to reposition several stronger roots to the back side which was bare of roots. Will require several repots and root pruning to develop the proper support on that side! For this reason I will retain more branching and foliage for the next two years.
 

defra

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Update?

Sorce

doing great healthy as can be!
did wire it once more after last pics
wanna start with the shari soon but also doubting to dont do that yet and pack up the trunk once more....
needs a trimming soon tough 😅

still want to try the seccond trunk as father son thing after all this tree i took with me to kill time waiting for over a week at the hospital if my youngest son would recover or die from a Meningococcal disease we had luck and all is going great now :D
its the only tree with emotional value to me

I quickly snapped this couple of pics today!

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bonhe

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The tree is currently 32 inches if I recall correctly! will finish possibly one inch shorter in the end.

Cut and grow for back budding for sure, selective needle removal to encourage needle bud positioning.
Progress will be slower because my primary focus is root development to support the new planting angle. When repotting I had to reposition several stronger roots to the back side which was bare of roots. Will require several repots and root pruning to develop the proper support on that side! For this reason I will retain more branching and foliage for the next two years.
It has a nice height.
I agree with you now.
Thu Thoai
 

bonhe

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I like the Literati style the most. These 12 yo KBP seedlings have been trained for this style.
736E38A4-5B77-4039-8109-6F2B91823669.jpeg

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I will remove the left branch this year
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Another one
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In the first few years of their lives, I heavily wired and bent them. After that, I mostly used cut and grow technique and rarely used wiring .
Thụ Thoại
 

River's Edge

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This Shore Pine responded well with new spring candles taking on a bushy appearance. Thinned out the tree and prepared for further development. At this stage I am compacting foliage and solidifying the root system for the planting angle. Hence the support system. Slowly adjusting the canopy lower to the left. Traditional wiring is out of the question with the aged bark! So once a year I am adjusting the guy wire. It is a bit lower than I want at this point but will spring back a tad when released. Final adjustment will be with the tertiary branches. Leaving it fuller at this point for developmental reasons. Two pictures showing spring growth and thinned, cut backIMG_1121.jpegIMG_1122.jpeg appearance to promote back budding.
 

james

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This isn’t a literati yet. Trying to get there.

C8178BE5-509F-4443-BA79-9AC65B055444.jpeg
Original tree, one of my first juniper. March 2020. Thin trunk, some wiggle. Finally learned how to manage shimpaku foliage, which is now healthy and full.

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New front, formerly the back. Foliage looks too heavy for skinny trunk.

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Significant cut back, new front

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New pot (too big for final), 3 months after jin treated, fine wiring on foliage. Let grow this year. Future, tighten foliage, reduced apex, smaller pot.
 

Smoke

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Solange said:
I dislike the baiting followed by rehearsed explanations. I presume you do know that bunjin has essentially the same meaning as literati, but figured I would add that here for those that don't. Cheers

You also need to do more reading. Baiting is the only way to get any interaction around here. You look funny with the hook in your mouth. The Chinese language is rife with Latin....so it seems

This has to be the best exchange I have ever seen.
 

ghues

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A couple of my Pinus Contorta (Contorta) Shore Pine, attempts at Bunjin/Literati. Only some minor wiring left on for a few more weeks before it cuts in too much.
Based on some feedback from various sources....I almost eliminated a branch, but decided to try and rearrange the branches. Can always eliminate something in the future. First photo is after, second before.
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River's Edge

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Based on some feedback from various sources....I almost eliminated a branch, but decided to try and rearrange the branches. Can always eliminate something in the future. First photo is after, second before.
View attachment 308671View attachment 308673
Hi Graham
Have. you considered introducing an unexpected change or more dramatic change of direction to the trunk. One advantage of working with a young tree is the ability to change the trunk if desired. I know pictures are deceptive, but there appears to be several natural beginnings of a change of direction that could be used for that purpose! Shore Pine are very supple. I would retain the foliage until you have exhausted all options and are happy with the expected outcome!
 

ghues

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Hi Frank,
Even though it doesn’t appear to have much movement in the photo......one of the things that drew me to this tree was the subtle gentle curves along the entire tree....the curves show themselves from all sides.....it probably grew up tall and spindly searching for light as most branches were on one side. So IMHO this tree doesn’t lend itself to a dramatic directional change....but I think it fits the description of Bunjin/Literati; its tall, slender, with little taper, it’s nebari isn’t that impressive, the curves in the trunk to me are graceful, other than that little tuff at the base the first branch is almost at 2/3 of its height and it has some elegant simplicity to it.
Your observations about retaining foliage is also my mantra...... not only on this tree but many in the my Bonsai Pit. This tree still needs a couple more seasons to strengthen its root system in order to remove the supports.
Here is another photo from earlier this year from a different angle showing the curves. (from the left side)
 

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River's Edge

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Hi Frank,
Even though it doesn’t appear to have much movement in the photo......one of the things that drew me to this tree was the subtle gentle curves along the entire tree....the curves show themselves from all sides.....it probably grew up tall and spindly searching for light as most branches were on one side. So IMHO this tree doesn’t lend itself to a dramatic directional change....but I think it fits the description of Bunjin/Literati; its tall, slender, with little taper, it’s nebari isn’t that impressive, the curves in the trunk to me are graceful, other than that little tuff at the base the first branch is almost at 2/3 of its height and it has some elegant simplicity to it.
Your observations about retaining foliage is also my mantra...... not only on this tree but many in the my Bonsai Pit. This tree still needs a couple more seasons to strengthen its root system in order to remove the supports.
Here is another photo from earlier this year from a different angle showing the curves. (from the left side)
Hide it, I am coming with Rafia and #6 copper wire.:eek:
I agree there are gentle curves abounding, great starting points! I love a drop branch portion on Literati near the top of the design. Similar to this! An example from Taikan Ten 2015.ky72.jpeg
 

doctorater

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I never thought of that. I could scour the neighborhood and look for promising material and in the dead of night go out and dig them up. cool...thanks!
I like this tree, a nice literati. However, I think the owner should consider a deadwood feature at the base where it was cut, thinning the foliage in the crown, and certainly a smaller pot - a classic round drum style would work just fine.
 

doctorater

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I'll submit this yamadori Pinus contorta contorta (Shore Pine) into this Literati discussion (not sure about the intelligent part)..... I believe that it has many of the core elements/characteristics that one finds in this style.....it's nice and tall, has nice flaky bark, it's lanky with many twists and curves, has some natural Jin's, Shari, indicating the many struggles it's survived. Its base is 3", current height is 48" from the pot rim (total length of tree is just over 70").....so it could be much taller as it can easily be titled (to the left in the photos) when it gets a much stronger root system. It came with a beaver pelt of roots which travelled far on the granite rock I found it on.....the entire rootball was rolled it like a sleeping bag, wrapped with wet moss and plastic wrap and into the trusty backpack for transport.
I'm hopeful for its survival as it's flushed nicely this spring...will nurse it along feeding it well for the next two years.
Cheers G
View attachment 147049 View attachment 147050
Totally literati. I love this tree. So much history in that trunk.
 

ghues

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Totally literati. I love this tree. So much history in that trunk.
Here is the tree today.....recovering nicely, repotted this spring. Supports needed for at least this season. Might have to tilt it more upright (to the left)....so that the Apex is above the base.A08E0075-C29B-4291-B6E9-E436AB7AC7F7.jpeg
 

Forsoothe!

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Ever wonder what the origin of the word “Bunjin” is?

The Japanese bonsai Masters have left no stone un-turned categorizing every type of form a tree could be and have given each of them a name. They didn’t want to waste trees so that had to come up with a name for every shape. Most of the names are pretty forthright and straightforward. They didn’t invent the Broom form. They just called it as the saw it. They didn’t want to call it “Street Tree” even though that’s what it really is. Who would pay big money for a “Street Tree”? They are a very formal people and generally well-educated and wanted a single word because it’s easier to memorize a single word than a bunch of words, so Broom works on several levels. Cascade is another example of one word pretty well covering the form of a tree that looks like it’s falling out of a pot. Obviously, a Cascade Pot is a pot that is tall enough for a tree to fall out of and not hit the ground. There are lots of trees that are tilted at a funny angle that could never be forced to be a “Formal Upright” and they didn’t want to throw them away so they had to come up with name. “Slanted” covers that pretty well. A Slanted tree is one that looks stupid if planted correctly. But you don’t have to toss a Slanted tree, you sell it to people who are screwed up or have no taste because it is a formal style of a bonsai tree! What can you call a tree that doesn’t look healthy, or pretty, or like a tree that someone would buy? Remember, bonsai is business in Japan and if you throw away every tree that looks like crap you could lose your butt. If they could come up with a proper name for a crappy tree, there would always be someone stupid enough to buy it. Crappy is the proper descriptive word, but from a marketing standpoint, it just doesn’t work. They fished around for a long time, brainstorming on weekends, month after month and nobody could come up with an honest word that had marketability. Eventually, a guy suggested they use an acronym. You can get away with murder with an acronym: only the sound of the pretend word had to be marketable. The more complex the actual combination of words, the better. People could memorize “Crappy” pretty easily and they needed to use so many honest words that nobody would be able to remember what the acronym words actually were. Bunjin is the little moneymaker Japanese acronym. B.U.N.J.I.N really stands for Basically Unusable Nut Job Ignominious Nothing Burger.

The rest is history.
 
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