Intergenerational Equity in Bonsai

[drew33998]

What does this headline mean to you? Do you believe that it is your duty to ensure that the generations to follow are left a better place than you were? It seems that the closer people get to the end they either veer one way or the other.

Either scrutiny fills their mouth when words come out because of the underlying anger at themselves, of all they did not accomplish. Why should they help someone else get it right, nobody helped them?

Or they may look to wizen the next generation with words of wisdom about mistakes they have made and goals they have accomplished. They look at the next generations as an extension of the works they have done and hope that this generation can improve even further upon this.

It seems to me that many are quick to scrutinize in this hobby as they don't want anyone else to know how they came upon their good fortune for fear that these same people will have it easier and become more accomplished than themselves.

It is in my opinion that we are all on this site to find happiness, right? Because practicing the art of bonsai makes us happy. Shouldn't we be more free of ways for people to achieve this happiness?

 

[Stan Kengai]

My thought on the subject: If I see someone trying hard, going to a club (if available), and educating themselves, I am more than happy to give advice and share secrets. But the problem is that a vast majority of the newcomers we see on this site are merely here to be spoon fed. They don't want to put in the work and "pay their dues". They just want "free" advice and instant results.

 

[Vance Wood]

My thought on the subject: If I see someone trying hard, going to a club (if available), and educating themselves, I am more than happy to give advice and share secrets. But the problem is that a vast majority of the newcomers we see on this site are merely here to be spoon fed. They don't want to put in the work and "pay their dues". They just want "free" advice and instant results.

It seems that way sometimes. However it is still good to find one or two people you can share with.

 

[edprocoat]

When I seen the headline I thought for sure that Obama was involved somehow ...

We have to tax the Bonsai artists for the value their Bonsai will be worth in the future, its unfair that some should enjoy the intergenerational equity available through their parents bonsai while others only grow tomatoes and they get eaten the end of the year.

ed

 

[Dan W.]

There are always both types, from my experience... which isn't too much yet. -- Some will always want to pass on their knowledge, while others will try to hoard it. But the goal of a good teacher is that the student would become more than they were ("they" being the teacher). The goal should always be to build.

The best teachers are those who are passionate about the subject they teach; And the best students are those who are passionate about the subject being taught. I think, in most cases, these two will either gravitate toward each other or seek each other out.

Bonsai is growing in America and it will continue to grow. The best trees in each generation will continue on to the next generation and get better (hopefully) with each passing on. Japan has been at this for generations upon generations, and their trees prove it.

The knowledge is here, (and ever growing), the passionate teachers are teaching, and the passionate learners are finding teachers.

I might add that passionate teachers never quit learning either.

We are blessed to have many passionate teachers and learners here at B-Nut.

 

[macdad]

Well said Dan W. I am very new to bonsai, so I will compare to something I have much more experience in, Martial Arts. I have been studying/practicing for approx. 12 years, and you see a lot of people come and go. I have also been teaching kids for several years. My experience is that the things you are all observing in Bonsai are truly human nature. You will always run into some people that are lazy, or want the instant black belt because they want to be a Power Ranger... When people (kids or adults) find out that it requires a significant work and time, then many quit. There are also many who can't handle correction. If those who know more don't tell you what you are doing wrong, then you will never get better.

Frankly and I don't mean to be offensive, but many accomplished bonsai artist have been working at their passion for 20 plus years. That generally means they are older, unless they started when they were teenagers. At some point, adults lose their patience. They have been sugar coating and beating around the bush for many years and it gets tiresome. Therefore, they may come across as a little cantankerous. Personally, I let all that roll off and pick out the little nuggets of advice that were given and work to implement them.

 

[ABCarve]

There is an old saying...I would say Chinese saying....but I forgot.....hmm
"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear" This happened for me many times and the teacher was not a likely candidate. Sculpture teacher was not a sculptor. Engineering teacher wasn't an engineer. Life is an opportunity waiting to happen and it's up to you to recognize the opportunity....students and teachers alike.

 

[crust]

What does this headline mean to you? Do you believe that it is your duty to ensure that the generations to follow are left a better place than you were? It seems that the closer people get to the end they either veer one way or the other.

Either scrutiny fills their mouth when words come out because of the underlying anger at themselves, of all they did not accomplish. Why should they help someone else get it right, nobody helped them?

Or they may look to wizen the next generation with words of wisdom about mistakes they have made and goals they have accomplished. They look at the next generations as an extension of the works they have done and hope that this generation can improve even further upon this.

It seems to me that many are quick to scrutinize in this hobby as they don't want anyone else to know how they came upon their good fortune for fear that these same people will have it easier and become more accomplished than themselves.

It is in my opinion that we are all on this site to find happiness, right? Because practicing the art of bonsai makes us happy. Shouldn't we be more free of ways for people to achieve this happiness?

I don't buy that happiness is the origin of impulse and I definitely don't believe peoples ability to share is regulated by the fear of being somehow upped--both ideas seem completely cynical and debasing to me. I do think people help and share because the care--and are proud to. I don't think anyone is duty bound to be an online teacher--we simply share a common interest and can talk(type), and do. We are not professionals. Their motivations would be different for sure.

I seems pretty obvious to me that most people that do and study a hobby or art really don't know that much and don't really have an opportunity to do that much. We know what we know--or think we know, based on our meager or ample experience or teachings, in the end, we continue with our little trees essentially alone. I find joy in this, but what truly compels me is allusive. It is a primal thing born from the love of connectedness, a breathing poetry.

 

[Lazylightningny]

Assuming that this post is directed at certain members of this forum, let me give you my take on the subject. HFirst of all if someo e gets testy take the high road and ignore it. If you cant take the heat you can always find a kinder gentler forum. However please realize that despite their occasional outbursts of frustration these people are indeed sharing their decades of experience with us, who are complete strangers to them. Be humble in your questions and do your homework before posting.

 

[Vance Wood]

Assuming that this post is directed at certain members of this forum, let me give you my take on the subject. HFirst of all if someo e gets testy take the high road and ignore it. If you cant take the heat you can always find a kinder gentler forum. However please realize that despite their occasional outbursts of frustration these people are indeed sharing their decades of experience with us, who are complete strangers to them. Be humble in your questions and do your homework before posting.

Not that I have a prerequisite in order for me to respond to a question I would prefer that the questioner at least have an idea of what they are asking, even if it's wrong; that can be corrected.

 

[Dan W.]

...I find joy in this, but what truly compels me is allusive. It is a primal thing born from the love of connectedness, a breathing poetry.

I apologize ahead of time for getting off topic...

Crust, I think that connectedness/ relationship, you mentioned, is what drives all of us. How we relate to this world, the people and everything in it, is what shapes us and moves us. We are constantly looking for a reason to live, purpose. We also try to relate to what we understand, or believe in; for some of us it's a creator, others it's science. The simple fact is were all searching for meaning, and a reason for being. More important than how, why when...etc, is 'how do I relate' to the people and things in this world.

I think creativity/art is one of the most awesome forms of communication and relationship. These things move us on a "primal," or spiritual, level. Bonsai is us relating to and connecting with nature. Talking about bonsai is relating to and connecting with humanity; and shows (or a friend visiting your yard) is connecting, and sharing this connection to nature. When we create something we want people to connect with something in it; we want it to move them, like it moved us.

Back on topic. -- Teachers, are simply humans like all of us, with experience and something to share. They have both experience and baggage. -- As I said before, I think relationship is what drives us, but it can also cripple us. Bad relationships, bad experiences can cause us to run and hide. These things can make us afraid of relating or connecting... or bitter. Everyone, more than likely, has a mixture of all of this in their life. If we can realize this and let people be themselves, good and all, we can relate more easily... and heaven forbid-- learn from each other.

I love this: "a breathing poetry"

Sorry for the long windedness...

 

[drew33998]

The post was not meant to be directed at anyone, only a personal observation, so if it induced those feelings in you, perhaps there is a reason you feel that way? The post was meant to get people thinking. That's it.

 

[Smoke]

The post was meant to get people thinking. That's it.

Is there a book for that?

 

[drew33998]

Is there a book for that?

Sure. Go to the library or bookstore. Walk up to any shelf in the entire library. Pick any row. Then pick any book. Start reading. There you go. Repeat said exercise when finished.

 

[Smoke]

What does this headline mean to you? Do you believe that it is your duty to ensure that the generations to follow are left a better place than you were? It seems that the closer people get to the end they either veer one way or the other.

Either scrutiny fills their mouth when words come out because of the underlying anger at themselves, of all they did not accomplish. Why should they help someone else get it right, nobody helped them?

Or they may look to wizen the next generation with words of wisdom about mistakes they have made and goals they have accomplished. They look at the next generations as an extension of the works they have done and hope that this generation can improve even further upon this.

It seems to me that many are quick to scrutinize in this hobby as they don't want anyone else to know how they came upon their good fortune for fear that these same people will have it easier and become more accomplished than themselves.

It is in my opinion that we are all on this site to find happiness, right? Because practicing the art of bonsai makes us happy. Shouldn't we be more free of ways for people to achieve this happiness?

I feel better about sharing already. My advice would be go to the library, specifically the bonsai section and pick up any book and start reading. There you go. Repeat said exercise when finished.

I've shared enough for tonight.....

 

[Si Nguyen]

..... Shouldn't we be more free of ways for people to achieve this happiness?

Well, I am not sure how more free it could be. It is free already. And look at how much happiness it brought them.

 

[Vance Wood]

I think it is the responsibility of each generation to make sure the following generation has the same opportunities to make their own way in life the way they see fit.

 

[Smoke]

I think it is the responsibility of each generation to make sure the following generation has the same opportunities to make their own way in life the way they see fit.

Interesting, I am reminded of all the opportunities my kids and grandkids have had stripped from them in just the past five years.

 

[Smoke]

Shouldn't we be more free of ways for people to achieve this happiness?

Yes, we could call it Bonsai Redistribution. How about The Bonsai Progressive Movement. It certainly is not fair that some should have to work harder than others.

 

[Vance Wood]

Interesting, I am reminded of all the opportunities my kids and grandkids have had stripped from them in just the past five years.

I try not to go there because there are so many that think that the world owes them a living. The problem is that in order to continue this sort of thinking it is necessary to take stuff from the productive in a society and give it to whomever "They" feel like, all in the name of being fair. However we are fast approaching a point where there are too many mouths sucking on too few tits. Why do you think "they" want to take the guns?