Interspecies Grafting?

ShadyStump

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At our new home we're planning gardens and fruit trees to plant. On the subject of fruit trees grafted trees producing multiple varieties keeps coming up which has led me to start researching more on grafting in general. I've read through some of the old instructional threads, as well as some off site research and came to this question: how far can you go with grafting between different species?

Of course you can graft many varieties of the same fruit into the same root stock, and you can graft between various pines, or various maples, etc. I've been told you can graft a rose to an apple because they're both of the genus rosacea, and I have a curl leaf mountain mahogany in the yard- also rosacea- so I could theoretically graft between it, the apple and the rose.

But my nagging question is could I graft between unrelated species? For example, a maple and an elm, or a pine and a yew. I wouldn't imagine mixing conifers and deciduous would ever work because of differences in the aspects of dormancy and nutrient requirements, but just how far have any of you pushed it? Mostly wondering out of curiosity.
 

ShadyStump

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This is relevant
Eh, sorta relevant. All of those grafts are of the genus prunus. But can I graft between a plum (prunus) and an apple (rosacea)? Can you successfully mix genus via grafting?

For that matter, does it even work to graft a single flush pine scion onto double flush rootstock, or vis versa? Don't imagine that would make for too many problems, but they still grow very differently and is worth contemplating.
 

Potawatomi13

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does it even work to graft a single flush pine scion onto double flush rootstock, or vis versa?
Yes. JWP is grafted on JBP often. Consideration "sometimes" heeded of difference in bark or growth rate of different stock and graftee. Believe "general" rule dividing between true plant Species is they will not interbreed and likely (positively?) not share genetic material as done in grafting.
 

leatherback

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plum (prunus) and an apple (rosacea)?
Plum and apple are both rosacea family (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_(biology)).

One is in the genus Prunus, the other Malus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Rosaceae_genera

Normally, within the family you have a good chance of success. But it varies from species to species, and even from variety to variety. Grafting and finding the right combination of traits is a science in itself, especially in the fruit industry it is big business, as indicated by the video posted earlier.

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Wires_Guy_wires

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Also keep in mind that most plants and animals are still named and classified based on physiological traits and not always based on genetic phylogeny.
Before you start experimenting, it might be wise to check the phylogenetic tree of the plants you're working with, to visualize the genetic distance to one another.

But my nagging question is could I graft between unrelated species? For example, a maple and an elm, or a pine and a yew. I wouldn't imagine mixing conifers and deciduous would ever work because of differences in the aspects of dormancy and nutrient requirements, but just how far have any of you pushed it? Mostly wondering out of curiosity.
The short answer is 'No'.
The nutrient and dormancy issue is the smallest issue actually. Most graft rejections are based on incompatibility between immune systems and signaling. Plants can get all kinds of parasites and infections, and grafting a completely different family onto another will yield an immune response that'll most likely end in necrosis of the host tissue around the scion.
If this response wouldn't be in place, regular pollination and cross breeding would naturally occur and most plants wouldn't be able to succeed as a family.. Or there would be just one family in the entire world. Grass would cross with other wind-pollinators and we'd end up with grass-pine hybrids, or hops-juniper crosses.
There are ways though.. One can kill a nucleus of one plant, and replace it with another nucleus from another plant family. Sometimes these hybridizations are successful. Those hybrids might graft on one family but not the other, depending on their make-up.
Or if you can identify the genes that are related to a favorable trait, there are ways of inserting those genes into the genome of another family or even a different kingdom or domain.
 

Bnana

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It's not simple. Within a family (like rosacea) there are closely related genera (apple and pear) and genera that are more distant (prunus). The first often work, the more distantt ones not. But it's a bit idiosyncratic, it's not a golden rule. Even small genetic distance doesn't reliably say species are compatible.

So an apple tree with different types of apples and pears is possible, but adding oranges, blueberries etc won't work.
 

Shibui

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There are lots of exceptions and complications.
Some pear varieties can be grafted onto quince which acts as a dwarfing root stock but not all varieties of pear are compatible. Why some varieties are OK and others not is a mystery. To successfully graft those that are not we can use an interstock of a compatible pear variety.
Down here we have discovered that species from the genus eremophilla can be grafted onto plants of a completely different genus - myoporum. Eremophila are mostly desert plants an do not grow well in wetter eastern soils but the myoporum roots are tolerant so the grafted eremophila are hardy in cooler, wetter soils.

Grafts between some reasonably close relatives will often work but the further away you move the less likely grafting will be successful. I have never seen any reasoning why some work OK but other closely related species won't graft.
 

RJG2

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Somewhat related that I found pretty interesting:


Using tobacco as an intermediary graft increased odds of inter-family success.
 

Mikecheck123

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Interesting discussion. I bought a dwarf weeping willow from Evergreen Garden Works (s. bablylonica 'yatsubusa'), and am thinking about grafting it onto another willow species that is better behaved for bonsai. Namely, the curly willow.
 
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Interesting discussion. I bought a dwarf weeping willow from Evergreen Garden Works (s. bablylonica 'yatsubusa'), and am thinking about grafting it onto another willow species that is better behaved for bonsai. Namely, the curly willow.
If I recall correctly dwarfs are created by merging the rootstock of a plant that grows less to scion (cutting/ graft material) so this might be interesting if you graft the more bonsai friendly branches onto the dwarfs trunk / roots
 
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