Inverted cutting!

bonhe

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It is insane idea, is not it? No, it is not! In other post http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/propagate-thick-olive-branch-by-cutting.14984/page-2, Si Nguyen mentioned my name in below reply:

"You might have your stump up side down, which is ok. I have one of those up-side-down stump olive bonsai. Bonhe ( a friend on here) introduced me to a friend in Corona, CA, who does a lot of these olive stumps. He would put the huge trunk section upside down and grow it into a masterpiece. Hard to believe until you see it for yourself."
I create this topic to answer the question of Hemmy.
It is a technique circulated in few Vietnamese bonsai people in Southern California for years. One of my best friend, MP, is a master in this technique. Like Si said, MP has produced so many masterpieces not only olive, but pomegranates as well. I know one of famous bonsai artist here had to acquire materials from MP. I deeply appreciate MP who taught me not only this technique but also others.

What is the inverted cutting? Please look at the below pictures for information.
3.png 4.png

Below picture shows the tree
1.png

The horizontal cut surface at the trunk base is at the soil line or a few centimeters below the soil line. Then the root system will be inverted and placed into the good drainage soil. I like to use pumice: mini pine bark with ratio 1:1.
2.png

Because it is really big cutting (the largest cutting, which I made, is about 60 cm diameter), we have to give it an excellent humidity environment. I use a big clear plastic bag which used to cover furniture for sale in the store to cover the cutting and the pot. The pot has to be placed in the shady site until the new shoots coming out. We need to observe the plastic bag daily. If there is a tine water drop inside the plastic bag, it means the soil is still wet. No need water at that time. The post care is very important for the success.
Question: why do we love to do the inverted cutting?
Bonhe
 

namnhi

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Bonhe
Sounds so interesting. Do you have a picture of the actual tree. Would like to see it.
Thanks
NN
 

_#1_

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I'm stumped, literally.

So trees with them funky roots can be cut, placed upside down, and the roots will become branches, and cut end will grow new roots?
 

BrianBay9

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I assume success is limited to certain species of trees? Which have been tried? Successful with any other than olive and pomagranite?
 

wireme

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I did this years ago with some gnarly tapered taproots of willow and cottonwood. It worked but I don't have the trees anymore, they got moused a couple years later.
 

bonhe

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Hah, how dump I am! I just found out how to reply to all people's posts at the same time! :(

Bonhe
Sounds so interesting. Do you have a picture of the actual tree. Would like to see it.
Thanks
NN
Of course I do.

So the roots actually become the tree portion?
Yes, sister.

I'm stumped, literally.
So trees with them funky roots can be cut, placed upside down, and the roots will become branches, and cut end will grow new roots?
Absolutely.

I assume success is limited to certain species of trees? Which have been tried? Successful with any other than olive and pomagranite?
You are correct. I will let you know later in my writing. I want to organize those in order for better understanding!
p/s: because my time slot is not really good (I am only typing on the free weekend), please post any questions or suggestion. Thanks
Bonhe
 

bonhe

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I did this years ago with some gnarly tapered taproots of willow and cottonwood. It worked but I don't have the trees anymore, they got moused a couple years later.
What is pity! Do you still have any pictures of those? Thanks
Bonhe
 

bonhe

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Why do we love to do the inverted cutting?
There are some advantages of it.
  1. Excellent taper.
  2. Interesting barks.
  3. Excellent trunk line and shape.
  4. Brain stimulant (multiple design ways). I use the above example. I can separate one big trunk into 3 different trunks.
    7.png
  5. Green planet (No wasting material). In other thread, Si Nguyen stated: “When you dig up a big olive tree, you will get many chunks of roots that are irregular and seemingly worthless to use for bonsai. Don't throw them away, just plant them flat down in any direction, let them sprout, then design them later”. I agree with him 100%.

* Disadvantage:

  1. Difficult to turn it into the masterpiece if you don’t choose the right piece. In other thread, Poink88 stated: “Exactly what I was telling my wife! LOL Looks like a forest on a hill. Some roots are a bit bigger and actually intertwined so I chopped some back. I'll wait if any of them sprouts and take it from there” and "For now, all sprouts are just within the perimeter and below soil level. It is just a junk piece anyway that I decided to play with than just toss away. It is the lower half of a root ball (literally a "ball"). Hemmy in other thread stated: “The roots then resprout from the 'mountain-like' base”. One example:
5.png 6.png

It is very common for olive. It will stay as an uninteresting bonsai forever if you don’t know how to play with it. Si Nguyen has very interesting design idea for this situation. By the way, I highly admire him in bonsai design. He has the eyes! ;-)
2. Medical problems: back pain, abdominal hernia, hemorrhoid, stroke, heart attack (due to heavy material to which you are dealing with).

Next question will be very interesting to know: how can the vegetative growth be on the rootage?
Bonhe
 

wireme

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What is pity! Do you still have any pictures of those? Thanks
Bonhe

Yeah probably, but on an old computer that hasn't been plugged in for the last 3 yrs or so. It's more likely that I'll try new ones before we ever see those pics here! Yet another potential spring project I guess.
 

aml1014

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easily and even much bigger.
Awesome, I just repotted my big one a few days back and I had a root about 5inches long and at least half inch thick so I decided to pot it up and see what happens.:)
Thank you!

Aaron
 

bonhe

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Almost guarantee it! Lol
Hey @bonhe sorry that this is a little of topic, but do you know if olives will prpogate from .5" thick root cuttings?
Thanks

Aaron
No sorry. Your question is still in this topic. I have 2 olive inverted cuttings. Their base diameters are 15' and 17' !! It means olive is so easy to make a cutting. Good luck. I think you should try inverted cutting and see the result.
Bonhe
 

wireme

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[QUOTE="bonhe, post: 411963, member: 2571"
Next question will be very interesting to know: how can the vegetative growth be on the rootage?
Bonhe[/QUOTE]


I do have a couple pics of willow cuttings here. After soaking or being kept moist for a while these white bumps start coming up under the bark. If they are kept in the dark they become roots if exposed to light they become shoots. I see it all the time, if light is getting under tarps we get leaves, if it's good and dark, roots. These same bumps appear on root cuttings and stem cuttings.
I'm sure other species react quite differently. image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg
 

0soyoung

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I do have a couple pics of willow cuttings here. After soaking or being kept moist for a while these white bumps start coming up under the bark. If they are kept in the dark they become roots if exposed to light they become shoots. I see it all the time, if light is getting under tarps we get leaves, if it's good and dark, roots.

I'm curious why you don't get etiolated shoots on the top side of the stem in darkness, instead of roots all around the stem as you say. It is a very strange loss of polar auxin transport and gravitropism.
 

wireme

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I'm curious why you don't get etiolated shoots on the top side of the stem in darkness, instead of roots all around the stem as you say. It is a very strange loss of polar auxin transport and gravitropism.

Beats me. I don't have anywhere near the knowledge of theory that you do, it's only what I see happening. You can see the root sticking straight up in the last pic. The cutting wasn't moved, just uncovered. I used to use these cuttings for bioengineering slope stabilization and revegetation projects so I've seen hundreds of thousands of the cuttings behave in this manner.
 

aml1014

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No sorry. Your question is still in this topic. I have 2 olive inverted cuttings. Their base diameters are 15' and 17' !! It means olive is so easy to make a cutting. Good luck. I think you should try inverted cutting and see the result.
Bonhe
It's been about a week, you still think I could flip it? The top portion has lost all feeder roots already.

Aaron
 

0soyoung

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Beats me. I don't have anywhere near the knowledge of theory that you do, it's only what I see happening. You can see the root sticking straight up in the last pic. The cutting wasn't moved, just uncovered. I used to use these cuttings for bioengineering slope stabilization and revegetation projects so I've seen hundreds of thousands of the cuttings behave in this manner.
I recall you posting about this.
It is just that something doesn't seem make sense and I'd like to understand it. I will never have anything nearing your experience with this real-world stuff.

What I think you saying is: were I to bury a willow stick horizontally (in a trench) it would make nothing but roots because it is all in the dark (buried). Such a stick would make only roots, run out of starch, and die, so I think I must be misunderstanding something.
 
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