Is Bonsai Mirai Live Worth $300/year?

[Cable]

$6 pro nana

 

[Bananaman]

Yeah, well sometimes you get caught up in overthinking the journey when the destination is staring right at you.

Out of the mouths of babes. OK so your older than me. But you just said a mouth full. Thats is exactly what the internet has done to bonsai. There is so much good and bad stuff that people are overthinking this stuff so much the really, I don't know how some of you get done what you do get done. This is really easy mindless stuff. I am not a professional. I don't have really great trees. I go and see really great trees and wish I could have them or get my hands on them or afford them, but I don't lose sleep over it. I just do the best with what I have. People on here could do the best they can too if they just went out and worked the trees instead of figuring out nastier ways to call me an SOB...and I ain't a student of Boon.

There is more information on here pertaining to what most of the trees here, are like. Watching Mirai videos for 80 percent of the forum is like buying 200.00 dollar pots for your twenty dollar juniper. Entertaining yes, but most of that stuff has been hashed here for years, and if it is something you think is new, its just a today twist on something done thirty years ago and resurrected on a 300.00 a year video feed. If you havn't been doing bonsai for over thirty years how would you know...correct?

 

[MichaelS]

Nonsense. Of course people can learn to be creative and can develop aesthetic sensibilities (how to “see”). Babies are not creative and they don’t have a good sense for design. Ergo, you learned it and that means someone else can too. It might be challenging and require some sustained effort and studying with a mentor who can show you how, but it is most definitely not impossible.

Creativity comes from within, not from without. We could speculate as to what brings it about - I have no idea about that. You can't teach someone to be creative or to be imaginative. You can tell someone to use their imagination but you can't teach them to. That would be like teaching someone what to dream. Many times I showed people that want to know how I did this or that with this or that tree or whatever exactly how I did it and they can't do it.
Example ''how do you know where to place the chojubai root cuttings so you get a natural development like that?'' Answer.... '' I did it like this, all you need to do is do that and you will get this.'' result..... no good. Example, ''Where do you place the trees in a group planting so they look right''? Answer....''If you put one here and one there and then fill in with the other like this, you get that'' result...no good, can't do it. No imagination (or not enough) Sure I could lay it all out on a grid and they would do it, but that's showing technique not creativity. Babies are the most creative beings of all. They don't have the technique to demonstrate it to you but they are the most spontaneous of all. Everything they think comes without any baggage from external influence. A baby doing finger painting is pure creativity. Your example of a baby learning to be creative is wrong. That is a perfect example of learning technique.

 

[MichaelS]

BUT, Life is not a zero some game, you can indeed learn artistic sight if you believe you can and you are dedicated to it and you don't allow some mean spirited, self righteous individual to convince you that you can't. If you were not blessed with an artistic spirit your desire to acquire it would not be such a driving force. .

Disagree. If you ''learn'' creativity, you learn it from within yourself. Someone telling you that you are not creative has nothing to do with restricting your creativity. You either are or you aren't. Someone may be able to convince you that you are not creative but that is your sprit or your will being stifled, not your creativity.

 

[MichaelS]

A quote from the famous Japanese sculptor Noguchi...

''It is true that we come to experience with our own limitations and see only that for which we are prepared''

 

[Saddler]

Creativity comes from within, not from without. We could speculate as to what brings it about - I have no idea about that. You can't teach someone to be creative or to be imaginative. You can tell someone to use their imagination but you can't teach them to. That would be like teaching someone what to dream. Many times I showed people that want to know how I did this or that with this or that tree or whatever exactly how I did it and they can't do it.
Example ''how do you know where to place the chojubai root cuttings so you get a natural development like that?'' Answer.... '' I did it like this, all you need to do is do that and you will get this.'' result..... no good. Example, ''Where do you place the trees in a group planting so they look right''? Answer....''If you put one here and one there and then fill in with the other like this, you get that'' result...no good, can't do it. No imagination (or not enough) Sure I could lay it all out on a grid and they would do it, but that's showing technique not creativity. Babies are the most creative beings of all. They don't have the technique to demonstrate it to you but they are the most spontaneous of all. Everything they think comes without any baggage from external influence. A baby doing finger painting is pure creativity. Your example of a baby learning to be creative is wrong. That is a perfect example of learning technique.

That is an excellent point. Do you think you can teach/inspire/show/whatever word is apt someone to bring out what creativity they might have? Being someone with minimal creativness, yet I do have a little, can what little I have be brought out by someone else, in your opinion?

 

[Bananaman]

You have to experience your "Finding Jesus"moment. What you have is in you and you alone. Somebody else can inspire you, nudge you and make you think. But in the end it is you that has to do the work. That is if you want to make trees that are all you. There are some here, not many that work with professionals on a yearly basis. I always wonder...at what point do you just stop going to the professional and do it yourself. I mean even college is only four years. If you don't feel you have what it takes to move away from your teacher and do this on a high level than there is something wrong with the teacher or you have so much money that you enjoy their company. Thats not for me. Those that wish to do it, bully.

I was in a club for over thirty years. I didn't go after the first five cause I was learning something every meeting, I went for the comrades and the fellowship and working towards the show and fund raisers.

 

[Bananaman]

$6 pro nana

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Is this a challenge tree?

If it is lets start a thread so they are all in one place. And please tell us something about your thought process on this interesting piece. You can start the thread yourself with this piece and I will post mine later to it also.

 

[Saddler]

That is an excellent point. Do you think you can teach/inspire/show/whatever word is apt someone to bring out what creativity they might have? Being someone with minimal creativness, yet I do have a little, can what little I have be brought out by someone else, in your opinion?

I didn’t mean can YOU, Michael inspire someone, but can it be done in general?

 

[Saddler]

Is this a challenge tree?

If it is lets start a thread so they are all in one place. And please tell us something about your thought process on this interesting piece. You can start the thread yourself with this piece and I will post mine later to it also.

I’m not sure what this challenge is, but if it is turning a $5 tree into something, I have a boxwood I want to enter.

 

[MichaelS]

I didn’t mean can YOU, Michael inspire someone, but can it be done in general?

Yes I think inspiration can come from anywhere and obviously the more tools you learn to use the more possibilities for expressing your creativity. The faster you can learn to use those tools the better. That's why bonsai mirai is a good place to go to learn those things. International Bonsai magazine is another. That's where I learned most of what I know regarding how to treat a particular species to get the best out of it etc etc. I learned absolutely zero about how I should style a tree according to what I like. Sure there's plenty about how this or that author ''thinks'' it should be styled, and what's the ''accepted'' way etc, but that has nothing to do with creativity and individuality. And mind you, in bonsai, the line between creativity and parroting what has gone before is rather thin. You are constrained by things such as branches always needing access to sunlight, the natural habit of a tree, the need to prune even if you would rather not etc etc. We are still working with living organisms and need to respect that above all.
Another thing is that I think most people that come to bonsai are probably creative to some degree but are held back by the need for acceptance, fear of making mistakes, things like that.

 

[MichaelS]

You have to experience your "Finding Jesus"moment. What you have is in you and you alone. Somebody else can inspire you, nudge you and make you think. But in the end it is you that has to do the work. That is if you want to make trees that are all you. There are some here, not many that work with professionals on a yearly basis. I always wonder...at what point do you just stop going to the professional and do it yourself. I mean even college is only four years. If you don't feel you have what it takes to move away from your teacher and do this on a high level than there is something wrong with the teacher or you have so much money that you enjoy their company. Thats not for me. Those that wish to do it, bully.
.

Agreed

 

[Saddler]

Yes I think inspiration can come from anywhere and obviously the more tools you learn to use the more possibilities for expressing your creativity. The faster you can learn to use those tools the better. That's why bonsai mirai is a good place to go to learn those things. International Bonsai magazine is another. That's where I learned most of what I know regarding how to treat a particular species to get the best out of it etc etc. I learned absolutely zero about how I should style a tree according to what I like. Sure there's plenty about how this or that author ''thinks'' it should be styled, and what's the ''accepted'' way etc, but that has nothing to do with creativity and individuality. And mind you, in bonsai, the line between creativity and parroting what has gone before is rather thin. You are constrained by things such as branches always needing access to sunlight, the natural habit of a tree, the need to prune even if you would rather not etc etc. We are still working with living organisms and need to respect that above all.

Tools are one thing. Creativity is another, it’s an inherent skill. I’m only asking about creativity. The restrictions of a trees need not apply or the difference between oil and water paint or anything else is a moot point. Can what little creativity that I have, be brought out/fostered/inspired by someone else? That other person can use all the tools in the playbook if they need to.

 

[MichaelS]

Tools are one thing. Creativity is another, it’s an inherent skill. I’m only asking about creativity. The restrictions of a trees need not apply or the difference between oil and water paint or anything else is a moot point. Can what little creativity that I have, be brought out/fostered/inspired by someone else? That other person can use all the tools in the playbook if they need to.

Depends what you mean by brought out, fostered or inspired. If you mean ''increased'' then no. If you mean ''awakened'' then yes. By ''tools'' I mean inspiration by example.

 

[Saddler]

Depends what you mean by brought out, fostered or inspired. If you mean ''increased'' then no. If you mean ''awakened'' then yes. By ''tools'' I mean inspiration by example.

Ok... what’s the difference between increased and awakened? My cognitive functions increase as i wake up. I could argue my cognitive functions can increase even past the point I have fully awakened.

Maybe I am not seeing the difference between awakened, inspired and increased.

 

[Lorax7]

I will teach you to be creative right now.

Supplies needed:
1 sheet of paper (doesn’t matter what size as long as it is large enough that you will be able to fold it; doesn’t matter what shape it is either), 1 instrument that you can make marks with (pencil, pen, marker, crayon, paintbrush, etc.; doesn’t matter which one or what color as long as the color you choose contrasts with and can be seen when applied to the paper), flat surface to work on

Procedure:
1. Fold and crease the paper along a line oriented in any direction that you choose that meets the following constraints: It must not be parallel or perpendicular to any straight exterior edge of the paper. It must not be collinear with vertices of the exterior edge of the paper. The fold must be done in such a way that, after the fold divides the paper in two, the section with the smaller area comprises no less than 10% of the total area.
2. Unfold the paper.
3. Pick the first word that comes to mind when you think of your high school math teacher.
4. Now consider that word and identify a common household object that is in some way related to the word that you thought of in the previous step.
5. Draw a picture of that common household object to one side of the dividing line of the fold. The orientation and position of the object relative to the fold line can be whatever you want it to be.
6. After you’ve drawn the object, shade in the remaining area on that side of the fold line.
7. Think of the object that you drew. Make a list of adjectives that describe the object.
8. Consider your list of adjectives. Can you think of the first names of any people who could also be described with those adjectives? If so, write their names on the other side of the fold line. If there are no people who can be described using those adjectives, write 3 of the adjectives on the other side of the fold line.
9. Post a picture of your sheet of paper.
10. Contemplate the process you went through in this exercise. Can you think of some underlying principles guiding the process? Why did we do it this way? What did the final result look like? What about this process worked? What didn’t?

 

[Potawatomi13]

I didn’t mean can YOU, Michael inspire someone, but can it be done in general?

Speaking personally A good(or great) teacher can inspire ones creativity IF one is a creative individual. Not all are so. Not all have artistic brain. "Many"(not most)only able to follow rules, create by formula without artistic creativity. All this said to say this: ONE visit to Ryans garden exploded inspiration, greatly inspired personal creative spark. Watching him work, listening to him speak/explain what is done keeps inspiration alive. Even working on trees personally uninteresting is educational and often fun hearing give and take on show. For this one YES absolutely is worth subscription even if tier 2 member.

 

[Saddler]

It must not be parallel or perpendicular to any straight exterior edge of the paper.

It must not be collinear with vertices of the exterior edge of the paper.

Before I get to the rest, is one of those sentences able to be true with the othe not?


I like it. I like it a lot.

 

[Saddler]

I will teach you to be creative right now.

Supplies needed:
1 sheet of paper (doesn’t matter what size as long as it is large enough that you will be able to fold it; doesn’t matter what shape it is either), 1 instrument that you can make marks with (pencil, pen, marker, crayon, paintbrush, etc.; doesn’t matter which one or what color as long as the color you choose contrasts with and can be seen when applied to the paper), flat surface to work on

Procedure:
1. Fold and crease the paper along a line oriented in any direction that you choose that meets the following constraints: It must not be parallel or perpendicular to any straight exterior edge of the paper. It must not be collinear with vertices of the exterior edge of the paper. The fold must be done in such a way that, after the fold divides the paper in two, the section with the smaller area comprises no less than 10% of the total area.
2. Unfold the paper.
3. Pick the first word that comes to mind when you think of your high school math teacher.
4. Now consider that word and identify a common household object that is in some way related to the word that you thought of in the previous step.
5. Draw a picture of that common household object to one side of the dividing line of the fold. The orientation and position of the object relative to the fold line can be whatever you want it to be.
6. After you’ve drawn the object, shade in the remaining area on that side of the fold line.
7. Think of the object that you drew. Make a list of adjectives that describe the object.
8. Consider your list of adjectives. Can you think of the first names of any people who could also be described with those adjectives? If so, write their names on the other side of the fold line. If there are no people who can be described using those adjectives, write 3 of the adjectives on the other side of the fold line.
9. Post a picture of your sheet of paper.
10. Contemplate the process you went through in this exercise. Can you think of some underlying principles guiding the process? Why did we do it this way? What did the final result look like? What about this process worked? What didn’t?

I’ve done it once. And I’ll do it again. I think I can improve on this mental exercise a lot. I am slow to process new ideas because I see too many possibilities. Give me another person to start with. I could choose one but I feel the end result is already a foregone conclusion.

What didn’t work.... I didn’t take my time thinking about it

What worked... the exercise in general. This is a thought process I am not accustomed to. I can feel my tiny brain is a little tired from doing this exercise.

 

[MichaelS]

Speaking personally A good(or great) teacher can inspire ones creativity IF one is a creative individual. Not all are so. Not all have artistic brain. "Many"(not most)only able to follow rules, create by formula without artistic creativity. All this said to say this: ONE visit to Ryans garden exploded inspiration, greatly inspired personal creative spark. Watching him work, listening to him speak/explain what is done keeps inspiration alive. Even working on trees personally uninteresting is educational and often fun hearing give and take on show. For this one YES absolutely is worth subscription even if tier 2 member.