Is DE really bad for mycorrhizal fungal associations?

Clicio

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So goes the folklore around some Brazilian bonsai growers; diatomaceous earth is avoided on pines because they "kill" the mycorrhizae that benefits the roots of the pines.
 

TomB

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Some of my pines have moler clay in their mixes and they grow mycelium just fine. Watering habits, and what else is in the mix with the DE may be important though. A pine in pure DE may stay too wet, and end up with an unhealthy root ball.
 

Cable

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This is relevant to my interests. I have a mugo teeny I was planning to repot this summer and my mix is DE/lava/perlite.
 

defra

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People also say that you dont get fine feeder roots in DE but my juniper i repotted yesterday tells me otherwise!

Got two mugo's and they are doing great in the DE mixed it with coarse gravel tough to get the moisture down some cus pure it does stay wet long like tom b suggests
 

milehigh_7

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I would not put a lot of stock in this. Now it is true that powdered DE is mixed with some fungicides and sprayed on as a dormant treatment. It does in this function, inhibit fungal growth. However, this may be that it kills the insects that often carry the pathogens into the plant. For the most part, if DE is wrong, you don't want to be right.
 

milehigh_7

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Is this in reference to UK tesco, and US optisorb? A large partical DE is far less wet I find (ie sanicat for us).
I'll say it again, optisorb is not fired and does break down fairly quickly. If you want a test on that, grab some when it's wet and smash it between your fingers. Fired (calcined) does not do this. (full disclosure I sell the stuff)
 

TomB

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Is this in reference to UK tesco, and US optisorb? A large partical DE is far less wet I find (ie sanicat for us).
The sanicat also holds a lot of water, though not as much as the Tesco
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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So goes the folklore around some Brazilian bonsai growers; diatomaceous earth is avoided on pines because they "kill" the mycorrhizae that benefits the roots of the pines.
As somebody who grows fungi for fun, and plants for a living (and I used to do it the other way around).. I'd say that it's superstition.
However, if there's a lot of fluoride in DE, then it might be right. It all depends on the source of the stuff. The DE powder I get from somewhere in Germany does in fact contain a lot of fluoride. It's used here as a ant-deterrent.

Mycorrhizae can be killed in many ways, but not by adding rocks to a soil. Sure, if a lot of metals (like sodium, nickel, manganese, boron) are released from those rocks, they should be avoided in the first place or at least kept in a flowing river for a month or two to wash out. The salts, oh those pesky salts.. They'll kill everything. The tree will most likely die before the fungi will.
I also read a lot about the South Americans using coco coir, washed with.. Sea water. Then dried for packaging. I have seen a lot of people kill their plants in the stuff.

How does one grow pines in Brazil anyways? Do they have subzero winters? I'm thinking the climate is more of an issue than anything else. Even most brazillian fungi perform best in temperatures between 15-28 degrees C. Anything more than that will kill them in the long run.
 

Clicio

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How does one grow pines in Brazil anyways? Do they have subzero winters? I
There are cold winters (for a tropical
continental country ) in the southeast and south of Brazil, specially in the mountains.
White Pines are impossible, but JBP, Akamatsu and many natives, including also junipers, do thrive from Sao Paulo down to Argentina.
 

Adamantium

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I'll say it again, optisorb is not fired and does break down fairly quickly. If you want a test on that, grab some when it's wet and smash it between your fingers. Fired (calcined) does not do this. (full disclosure I sell the stuff)
What does this mean for repotting? Every year?
 

Clicio

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@sorce I know you've been using DE sometimes as a sole soil component; how about you pines, they do alright?
 

Victorim

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I'll say it again, optisorb is not fired and does break down fairly quickly. If you want a test on that, grab some when it's wet and smash it between your fingers. Fired (calcined) does not do this. (full disclosure I sell the stuff)
Napa then?.. sorry was just talking particle size :)
 

sorce

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@sorce I know you've been using DE sometimes as a sole soil component; how about you pines, they do alright?
I eff rooted, hacked and bare rooted the one 1gl Mugo last year, put it in pure sifted 8822. It should have died according to 80% of what I've read. It is getting ready to live again this season.

The Pugo Mine does have nursery soil in it still. But a lot of 8822, and it is (was before I just cut it) as healthy and green as when I first got it.

I post the earthworms in my DE to expose all the myths.
Worse yet...if we think about where the myths come from...
The use of DE to repel or kill insects.
We have to think about the validity of THAT CLAIM in the first place.

All of a sudden a product, known to cause cancer...(lol) that has been around for millions of years, is the new pesticide free hot shit to kill insects just in time for the "green movement"...?

Fuck No! It's a byproduct that they found a way to sell to stupid people.

So if you ask me...the source of the myths aren't even real!

Duuuuust in the Wind....
8822 ...
Dust in the wiiiiiiiind!

It's All Bullshit!

Oh plus...from wiki...
"In a mycorrhizal association, the fungus colonizes the host plant's root tissues"

Colonize the roots, not the soil.

Symbiotic ....means they stay with the roots.

Hell...Mycoriza itself is marketed and sold because of the "green movement".

Ask a 110 year old gardener what Mycorryza is!
They won't know but if you scrape under their fingernails, you'll probly find some!
Cuz they didn't get the "ppe-gloves" memo either...and they lived to 110!

You know I dug and weeded and cleaned and planted this entire yard with no gloves...
I must have found about 30 pieces of broken glass and the only thing I ever cut my hand on was a sharp root.

Maybe you have to live it to understand how caring for the earth ensures She will take care of you!

It's real.

Sorce
 
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