Is it too late in the season to trunk chop a chinese juniper???

[Cypress]

I have read that you can repot and prune junipers pretty much any time of the growing season, and my cultivar 'san jose' is supposedly very tough and drought resistant.

It is nursery stock, but has a fat trunk (4 inches thick probably) so I have no plans on ground planting it. I would probably make the chop above where I would want the final chop to be anyways to let the four or so side branches begin to strengthen, backbud and grow more foliage, and to thick a bit. So when spring rolls around I'll already have a head start. And select one or more leaders at that point. maybe o a multiple trunk.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
-Mike

Update: Weather here is sticking in the mid 70's for at least the next ten days and we usually see another blast of 80's at the end of august here in central NY... If temperature has any bearing on this decision?

 

[Cypress]

Welp, did it anyway. Chopped down to right above the lowest branch. Sealed up the 2 1/2" trunk scar with my homemade beeswax/lanolin cutpaste. Large size wound, but i"m going to rework it in the spring to heal faster. This tree has huge potential and I know it. It's going to be a long term development (10 yrs?). but in the end I know it will be a beast. Going for a larger sized bonsai style. I didn't take a picture pre-chop but can post one of it now, tomorrow, if anyone cares to see.

 

[tismeisthatu]

Any photo's, we all love photo's, preferably before & after shots.

 

[Eric Group]

I have read that you can repot and prune junipers pretty much any time of the growing season, and my cultivar 'san jose' is supposedly very tough and drought resistant.

It is nursery stock, but has a fat trunk (4 inches thick probably) so I have no plans on ground planting it. I would probably make the chop above where I would want the final chop to be anyways to let the four or so side branches begin to strengthen, backbud and grow more foliage, and to thick a bit. So when spring rolls around I'll already have a head start. And select one or more leaders at that point. maybe o a multiple trunk.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
-Mike

Update: Weather here is sticking in the mid 70's for at least the next ten days and we usually see another blast of 80's at the end of august here in central NY... If temperature has any bearing on this decision?

You DO NOT "trunk chop" Junipers! I wish you had waited for some replies here man... You also do NOT want to repot them during the growing season! I don't know where you heard all this.

If you remove more than 40-50% of a Juniper's foliage at one time, especially right in the middle of the summer, you honestly run the risk of the whole tree dying. They are not like Maples or Elms where they take a big trunk chop and throw out prolific new growth around the chop site normally. A Juniper stores most of it's vigor in the new growth tips and if you remove too much at one time, you can kill the tree! San Jose is a pretty tough variety, so that might save you...

For reports, you want to do that during the early Spring. A lot of people these days will tell you the Fall is an OK time as well, but I would recommend you stick with the Spring if you are in NY, and have harsh winters. If you do a repot in the Fall, you better protect those roots during the winter!

You need to learn a little patience here man... This is not a race.

 

[jk_lewis]

I do wish that when people ask for advice here they wait until they get some (and then carefully consider the source of that advice!).

They certainly will learn if they rush ahead with whatever it is they want to do, but it may be painful learning experience.

I tend to shudder when a question starts with "I have read that . . ."

I wonder WHERE they read it.

There are two possible sources: the Internet, or books.

Regarding the Internet: ANYONE can write whatever they please on the internet and publish it in a blog or a chat room, or a forum. After they do so, it sits there forever. People may respond negatively, or they may not. But good, bad or indifferent, that advice just sits there.

Regarding books: Books have editors. Decent publishers use fact checkers. Bad books tend to vanish -- they're not republished, and bad info tends to go away. Books have named authors, one can check on their abilities in any number of ways -- reviews, workshops conducted at conventions, word of mouth, bibliographies, etc.

So, "Where? is a good question to ask when someone says "I have read that . . ."

Reliance on the Internet for bonsai information is the lazy cheapskates way of learning bonsai.

 

[october]

When you post pics, please post before and after pics so we have a reference of how much was removed. I cannot say for certain, because some trees will surprise you. However, the odds of a juniper surviving having it chopped to the first branch, in the middle or the season, has very little chance of survival. However, like I said, some trees will surprise you.

Rob

 

[Cypress]

You DO NOT "trunk chop" Junipers! I wish you had waited for some replies here man... You also do NOT want to repot them during the growing season! I don't know where you heard all this.

If you remove more than 40-50% of a Juniper's foliage at one time, especially right in the middle of the summer, you honestly run the risk of the whole tree dying. They are not like Maples or Elms where they take a big trunk chop and throw out prolific new growth around the chop site normally. A Juniper stores most of it's vigor in the new growth tips and if you remove too much at one time, you can kill the tree! San Jose is a pretty tough variety, so that might save you...

For reports, you want to do that during the early Spring. A lot of people these days will tell you the Fall is an OK time as well, but I would recommend you stick with the Spring if you are in NY, and have harsh winters. If you do a repot in the Fall, you better protect those roots during the winter!

You need to learn a little patience here man... This is not a race.

Eric, please do not speak down to me, I know it's not a race. But thank you for your input. The tree was on clearance so not a huge loss if it fails, which it won't. There is a huge branch with branchlets still on the tree with thick healthy foliage in spots all the way up to the trunk. And we've had cooler weather and will for the next couple weeks. 60's-70's so might as well be early fall. I know my tree will be more than healthy. I keeping it in shade for most of the day and mist spraying the foliage. And I'm definitely not repotting it until spring.

Thnks
-Mike

 

[Cypress]

When you post pics, please post before and after pics so we have a reference of how much was removed. I cannot say for certain, because some trees will surprise you. However, the odds of a juniper surviving having it chopped to the first branch, in the middle or the season, has very little chance of survival. However, like I said, some trees will surprise you.

Rob

Here are pics of what it looks like now, and a pic of what i cut off standing up next to what it looks like now. The tree is sending me good vibes, he's a survivor.

 

[Vance Wood]

Eric, please do not speak down to me, I know it's not a race. But thank you for your input. The tree was on clearance so not a huge loss if it fails, which it won'y. There is a huge branch with branchlets still on the tree with thick healthy foliage in spots all the way up to the trunk. And we've had cooler weather and will for the next couple weeks. 60's-70's so might as well be early fall. I know my tree will be more than healthy. I keeping it in shad for most of the day and mist spraying the foliage.

Thnks
-Mike

Your tree will probably be alright but I agree you could have made a better choice in your effort than removing all that you choped off the top. It could have been turned into a great deal of Jin, Shari, Sabamiki, and the like. As to the repotting in the summer. That information, at least more recently, probably came from me. I have been repotting Junipers in the summer for more than forty years. I got that information originally from Yuji Yoshimura in the 1960's. So you see this information is not so new. Sometimes because of our hubris we tend to ignore older information thinking we are so modern we know everything. Considering how some of this misinformation can be cultivated by most peoples' source of information, THE INTERNET, sometimes people come along and claim things that are not true. One guy believes one thing or another and teaches that concept to a third party. Those people teach it to others and pretty soon we believe that the world is flat.

 

[Cypress]

Your tree will probably be alright but I agree you could have made a better choice in your effort than removing all that you choped off the top. It could have been turned into a great deal of Jin, Shari, Sabamiki, and the like. As to the repotting in the summer. That information, at least more recently, probably came from me. I have been repotting Junipers in the summer for more than forty years. I got that information originally from Yuji Yoshimura in the 1960's. So you see this information is not so new. Sometimes because of our hubris we tend to ignore older information thinking we are so modern we know everything. Considering how some of this misinformation can be cultivated by most peoples' source of information, THE INTERNET, sometimes people come along and claim things that are not true. One guy believes one thing or another and teaches that concept to a third party. Those people teach it to others and pretty soon we believe that the world is flat.

Yea totally. I should have left some to jin... Now I'm thinking of making some dead wood on the side of the trunk opposite than the branch and making some smaller jins. Maybe not worth it though.

I was going to not repot it this summer just because I don;t want to stress the tree too much, but what do you think?

 

[Vance Wood]

Yea totally. I should have left some to jin... Now I'm thinking of making some dead wood on the side of the trunk opposite than the branch and making some smaller jins. Maybe not worth it though.

I was going to not repot it this summer just because I don;t want to stress the tree too much, but what do you think?

It really does not matter much. If you would feel comfortable wait till spring.

 

[october]

2 things. You should not do anything in the way of pruning or shari on this tree for at least 2-3 years. The tree needs all it's reserves to recover. Also, junipers can take a while to show signs of stress. If you make it longer than 2 months and the tree is showing no signs of stress. That is a good sign.

Also, doing major chopping and a repot is not something that should be done in the same season.

Rob

 

[october]

It really does not matter much. If you would feel comfortable wait till spring.

Hi Vance, I am wondering if there is a miscommunication here. Are you saying you believe, it does not matter much if he repots now. Even after he chopped off like 80% of this juniper?

Rob

 

[Vance Wood]

Hi Vance, I am wondering if there is a miscommunication here. Are you saying you believe, it does not matter much if he repots now. Even after he chopped off like 80% of this juniper?

Rob

I have done it both ways. I have butchered the top of the tree (Shimpaku Mostly) and put them into small bonsai pots and in the summer.

 

[october]

I have done it both ways. I have butchered the top of the tree (Shimpaku Mostly) and put them into small bonsai pots and in the summer.

I have also repotted in summer. I have also repotted and pruned heavily in the same season. I would not have said anything unless I had not seen the pics that the op posted. The cutting the whole tree off back to one branch like an elm or a maple made me think that if the tree is healthy and the soil is not terrible, perhaps repotting should be put off for awhile.

I do feel that if this tree lives, there is potential there.

Rob

 

[Vance Wood]

I have also repotted in summer. I have also repotted and pruned heavily in the same season. I would not have said anything unless I had not seen the pics that the op posted. The cutting the whole tree off back to one branch like an elm or a maple made me think that if the tree is healthy and the soil is not terrible, perhaps repotting should be put off for awhile.

I do feel that if this tree lives, there is potential there.

Rob

I did not see the photographs, are they posted in another post on the thread?

Update: I found the photos, the tree should still be OK but it is going to take years for it to come back. Repotting should actually help it, the tree is probably bound in one form or another.

 

[october]

I did not see the photographs, are they posted in another post on the thread?

Update: I found the photos, the tree should still be OK but it is going to take years for it to come back. Repotting should actually help it, the tree is probably bound in one form or another.

Thank you Vance for replying. I hope it does work out for the tree. If it does, it will go against the traditional thinking of not removing more than around 30% of a juniper at one time. However, it should be mentioned that just because this might work in this case. I would not want others to think that it is normally ok to remove 70-80% of a juniper.

Rob

 

[Cypress]

Thank you Vance for replying. I hope it does work out for the tree. If it does, it will go against the traditional thinking of not removing more than around 30% of a juniper at one time. However, it should be mentioned that just because this might work in this case. I would not want others to think that it is normally ok to remove 70-80% of a juniper.

Rob

Hahaha, I'm a rebel. Choppin' dem trees downz.

 

[Cypress]

I did not see the photographs, are they posted in another post on the thread?

Update: I found the photos, the tree should still be OK but it is going to take years for it to come back. Repotting should actually help it, the tree is probably bound in one form or another.

Vance! Thank you, and October for your discussion, huge help!

1. Vance do you thinking repotting this august (next week) will help it? Instead of waiting until spring? If it makes no difference, I'd love to do it now, give me something to do.

Years to come back I know, but I picked this guy for a long term project since i've got other lil' trees which will develop sooner.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

But i will develop my trees as I see fit and if people want to criticize me or tell me I'm wrong, then I do not care to hear from them.

Sometimes people get into this hobby, and treat advice like a slot machine. With pruners in one hand, they pull the handle with the other, again and again, until the answer they want comes up. The phenomenon is pretty predictable...so are the results. It will be interesting to see if this is one of those cases.