Is there a book or web site for mature tree photos ?

JohnW63

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Since one of the goals of bonsai is to have a small tree look like a full grown mature tree, are there references with shots of what a given tree looks like, when it is all grown up. I suppose just Googling images with tree names would work, but not all mature trees are interesting to look at.

p.s.
Is the goal to have a mature or ancient looking tree ?
 

Cadillactaste

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Kokufo exhibition books are supposed to be amazing reference photos for bonsai. Though not written in English. If your after some just amazing photos for inspiration that would be the way to go. For Google imagines you pull up all photos...even ones done by amateur hobbies who may or may not know all the rules.
 

Anthony

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John,

a quick look at the library will show you books on the mature and typical shapes of trees.

Then there are the old timers and specimen trees.

If you are not able to really draw from nature, meaning to sit and draw what is in front of you, take a photo where you can see the top to the bottom in one glance.
Put the image on your laptop, and trace the outline with a good 9b on a good quality tracing paper.

If you are looking for idealised trees, find the parts that please you most, on the same tree type, and re-join on the tracing paper.
If need be take a few classes on Art, and discuss your objective with the teacher.

You can also produce mannerised trees, essentially a triangle disguised with lumps and bumps.Called a formula tree.

It is a matter of what pleases you.
Good Day
Anthony
 

Paradox

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I would think the books from the National Bonsai Exhibition would also make good references.
 

edprocoat

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So, you have no trees to look at where you live ?

ed
 

jk_lewis

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I'm not sure what you want. Do you want pictures of mature bonsai, or mature unpotted trees? Mature bonsai -- especially modern ones from Japan -- are unlikely to have a great resemblance to the real thing.

If you are looking for unpotted trees, what they look like will depend on where they are growing. Forest trees are tall and thin. A tree alone in a meadow will be spreading, a tree on a mountain top will be gnarled, etc. ad infinatum.

The suggestion that you use your library is agood one, but alas, few people even seem to know what a library IS these days.
 

Paradox

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I have to agree with JKL. Mature bonsai really dont match mature trees in nature most of the time.

That said, you can learn a few things from studying mature trees in nature. Ive studied trees in nature during the in the winter and saw great examples of branch ramification on older vs younger trees. Ive seen the formation of pads in pines. Ive seen how twin trunk trees grow and how they seem to have fewer branches crossing between the trunks, particularly on the lower half of the tree. Also how the branches on older trees bend down more due to their own weight and that of snow or how prevailing wind effects how a tree grows.
 
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JohnW63

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Perhaps I need to be more clear.

In the basic concept, bonsai has, as one goal, to make a small tree look old. Then to have the shape and scale of branches, trunk and container to add to the look of a mature tree in shrunken form. However, I was not sure how much bonsai was about making the tree look NATURALLY old, or a lot more STYLIZED extreme version of a mature tree.

So, if I go to the nursery and pick up a candidate juniper , for instance, should I look up what that species would grow up to look like, or should I simply look at finished bonsai using juniper and ignore what they end up like in the wild ? Another example is the Mugo pines I see. ( Sorry. I have already gotten the impression that it's a TOO often discussed tree in the forums. ) In the normal nursery photos, they are larger and green and not terribly interesting. In most bonsai forms, they look nothing like that.

Perhaps the better question would be, " What amount of natural age vs stylized bonsai form should I be shooting for as a goal ? "


As to the question about whether I have any trees to look at , where I live ? ... Yes. Joshua trees, rabbit brush, and creosote are native. Of course people have grown a lot more. It's a desert landscape for the most part. But NONE of them look like a bonsai and very few show much real age or interesting shapes. What I was looking for is an old tree reference as a GOAL to strive for.
 

Bonsai Nut

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In the basic concept, bonsai has, as one goal, to make a small tree look old. Then to have the shape and scale of branches, trunk and container to add to the look of a mature tree in shrunken form.

Not exactly - at least not to me. It isn't about making an old tree in miniature. It's about making something that makes you FEEL like you feel when looking at an old tree. It is about trying to capture the essence of nature.

That is why, at least to me, it is very difficult to look at photos of bonsai. Bonsai is a three-dimensional art. Even when looking at a photo of an AMAZING bonsai - I will guarantee you that seeing it in real life would be much more impactful.

In general, I would recommend Walter Pall's site as having some amazing bonsai photos online. Art is subjective. How do they make you FEEL?
 

Poink88

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For any pics you want/need... Google images

May take some time but it is all there.
 

JohnW63

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In general, I would recommend Walter Pall's site as having some amazing bonsai photos online. Art is subjective. How do they make you FEEL?

I really like a lot of his stuff. He has a good photographic style in documenting them too. I'd make some of his shots desktop backgrounds! What I like about his stuff is that much of it DOES look like a full sized tree and in a more believable way. How much does having rather LARGE bonsai help with this ? His trees look like the stuff of faery tales. If I stare at them long enough, I could almost hear one being told. Thanks for the link.

After considering what he has, and what you have said, would it be wrong to try and grow a bonsai how I envision it to be, and not be overly concerned about traditional rules and styles ?
 

sorce

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I am highly unconventional.

I love W.P.'s outside the boxedness.

However, one shouldn't overlook the fact (even W.P. hasn't)..

That the Japanese "traditional rules and styles" are ARTISTICALLY PERFECT.
The entire end display is what draws a human in.

Penjing. Different focal points, different objects to draw you in, but it does.

To do this with a naturally styled tree alone takes a great vision. The PERFECT pot.

Our generally young trees + lack of patience. = quite difficult.

American Bonsai......how do our trees draw you (everyone) in?

We throw around "if you like it,thats what matters" and "do with it what makes you happy" like it's good advice. IT'S NOT!

Consider EVERYTHING . And we can make better art. And give everyone the feeling that BNUT is talking about.

I want that feeling when I see every tree! Dont we all?!

I Want that feeling when I google (forest plantings most recently) things for inspiration. Instead, I only learn a bunch of stuff NOT to do. Pretty disappointing

Sorry to rant on your thread!

I want to feel your tree too!

Sorceraintangle.
 

Anthony

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Sorce,

you have to remember this is a HOBBY, done in your backyard, and until you decide to publicly exhibit, your eyes are all that matter.

So what should really be taught is, Horticultural Health and the rest is what you want.

Thus one can provide the information on where to research, offer Horticultural advice, but that's all.

Anyone living in or near a desert zone, should seek out the Phoenix bonsai society.

Until Bonsai starts to run on Museum Art rules, and as my brother-in-law suggest uses technology as in Holograms, there will be an endless repetition od, this is how it looked at it's best.
[ want to see how many will copy when he starts to do the holograms ]

Which why, we have two sets of images -

[1] When it was at it's best.

[2] Images to help others understand a technique.

Most of the trees down here have a generalised shape to maintain health and if needed for an exhibition, are prepped for 2 to 3 years, and then returned to generalised shape for their health.
Good Day
Anthony
 

M. Frary

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I am highly unconventional.

I love W.P.'s outside the boxedness.

However, one shouldn't overlook the fact (even W.P. hasn't)..

That the Japanese "traditional rules and styles" are ARTISTICALLY PERFECT.
The entire end display is what draws a human in.

Penjing. Different focal points, different objects to draw you in, but it does.

To do this with a naturally styled tree alone takes a great vision. The PERFECT pot.

Our generally young trees + lack of patience. = quite difficult.

American Bonsai......how do our trees draw you (everyone) in?

We throw around "if you like it,thats what matters" and "do with it what makes you happy" like it's good advice. IT'S NOT!

Consider EVERYTHING . And we can make better art. And give everyone the feeling that BNUT is talking about.

I want that feeling when I see every tree! Dont we all?!

I Want that feeling when I google (forest plantings most recently) things for inspiration. Instead, I only learn a bunch of stuff NOT to do. Pretty disappointing

Sorry to rant on your thread!

I want to feel your tree too!

Sorceraintangle.

Kind of weird but if you want to feel my trees I they need to be wined and dined first!
 

jk_lewis

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However, I was not sure how much bonsai was about making the tree look NATURALLY old, or a lot more STYLIZED extreme version of a mature tree.

Those are two (of many) philosophies of bonsai. They (and the others) are valid ways to approach bonsai. Your bonsai may not be like mine, but they may be as good (or bad, depending). It really doesn't matter.

So, if I go to the nursery and pick up a candidate juniper , for instance, should I look up what that species would grow up to look like, or should I simply look at finished bonsai using juniper and ignore what they end up like in the wild ?

There's no "should" to it. If you like a naturalistic tree, that's the way to go. If you like the ultra-manicured "bonsai look" go that way. Or, choose some other way.

Art requires imagination!
 

Bonsai Nut

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There's no "should" to it. If you like a naturalistic tree, that's the way to go. If you like the ultra-manicured "bonsai look" go that way. Or, choose some other way.

There was a tree a couple years ago at the GSBF Convention (the blasted redwood) that was very figurative. The bonsai was made from a stump, where the old stump was carved to represent a cliff and the last little part of life on top was styled as a bonsai. I loved it. Si was not a fan. It didn't look anything like a "real" tree in nature. But it looked like a "scene" in nature. It was very creative. But it broke many bonsai rules and was not for everyone.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Interesting comments, I agree with many. By way of emphasis, I'll add my own thoughts.

The species you choose to create bonsai can dictate the size of the tree for horticultural reasons. For example, Acer rubrum, the north American Red Maple has fairly heavy twigs, and seems to always have constant long leaf petiole that does not reduce even when you are successful in reducing leaf size. They work well for bonsai over 24 inches in height, but look odd in leaf when smaller sizes are attempted. Same for sugar maple, A. sacharrum. If you try to do small bonsai with these 2 species, in the end these will only be "show trees" when leafless. So horticultural concerns can drive design and style choices. Some species are boring left to their own normal growth patterns, but do become interesting when technique is applied.

Some trees are not easy to style in a style that the mature form of the tree in the wild. For example, Pinus strobus, Amer. white pine, near me there are many glorious, tall, old,
stately trees with very horizontal branches and straight trunks, perfect models of the formal upright pine. Yet trying to create one of these in miniature from P. strobus seedlings or nursery stock will drive the average person to madness. However, a JWP, P. parviflora, is a perfectly good stand in to create this type of image. Similarly, live oaks in nature are magnificent gnarly old trees, but very difficult to tame to create a replica from a live oak seedling. Yet a boxwood can nicely duplicate many of the features of a live oak in nature, and it lends itself well to smaller size bonsai.

So horticultural concerns do drive many of the size and design choices. Some species such as juniper and boxwood are the modelling clay of bonsai, they can be sculpted to just about any shape and form. They can mimic a wide array of shapes seen in nature, they can even be styled to resemble their natural forms in the wild.

I would first try many different species of tree, and see what grows well for you. Then from these choose what you want to use as your "modelling clay". As to styles, naturalistic, or stylized, is up to you.

To echo what was already said. While there are "no rules", if you already have a good grasp of artistic design and display, if you are not sure of what to do, The Japanese rules for bonsai design and display are perfect, and well worth learning and referring to when you are uncertain of what you need to do to improve your own trees. Chinese design is distinctly different than Japanese, but it too is "perfect" when taken as a whole.

So bonsai can be styled any way you want, but the effort must be a collaboration between the artist and the tree, the tree's horticultural habits will limit what you can do.
 

JohnW63

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One example of a tree that goes, just up the mountain slopes from me is the California Juniper. It seems to grow in various forms, from a large wide bush, to a more upright tree form to some oddly gnarled forms. Doing a google search shows it is a popular bonsai species. I was going to check with the forest service about a permit to collect some samples, once I get a better feel for the hobby. This tree does seem to get rather bonsai looking in nature, depending on where it found it's self growing. Is this a good beginner tree to try out ?

The only down side is I may be allergic to them ! If my doc was correct, those years ago when I saw the allergist.
 
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