Is there any hope for this scrawny scraggle?

[Mike Corazzi]

Got this "tree" on a bonsai club bus trip to some bonsai nurseries.
They had a bunch of trees for "winning" on the way home.
This was the last one.

All I did was wire ...SOME.... movement into it but those needles are perched WAAAAYYYYY out on the limbs.

Any ideas what to do or just chuck it?



Yes I know the pix are awful and not at all easy to see with the complicated background, but I think it shows a rough idea of it.

View attachment 209260View attachment 209260

 

[0soyoung]

Now that you have wire on all the branches, you might actually BEND THEM!

Make a nice little teepee with them, down about the height of the whirl, close to the trunk. Several branches will be 'S' shaped on a horizontal plane which will make them appear shorter from the point of view in front. Since you are explicity entertaining just tossing it, there is absolutely no reason to be timid.

Now, one, two, bend,
Three, four, bend,
Five, six, and voila!

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Now that you have wire on all the branches, you might actually BEND THEM!

Make a nice little teepee with them, down about the height of the whirl, close to the trunk. Several branches will be 'S' shaped on a horizontal plane which will make them appear shorter from the point of view in front. Since you are explicity entertaining just tossing it, there is absolutely no reason to be timid.

Now, one, two, bend,
Three, four, bend,
Five, six, and voila!

I'm not "seeing" a "teepee."
Are you suggesting scrunching them up like a demented pitchfork?
Guess I'm densing out on "teepee."

 

[Potawatomi13]

One addition to Oso comment please. Using grow container or ground grow out sacrifice apex for trunk development. This section for later removal likely above 2 left growing branches in first picture. Could do this replant now with time for establishment of roots before Winter rest but if going to wire also do very little root work. Will let Oso explain bending of branches.

 

[0soyoung]

Basically you have a tree with one whorl and an antenna. Lets suppose that I came over to your house and cut the antenna off, leaving you the trunk with a whorl on top - what would you do to style this tree?

We have some general guidelines to help; you know

• make the most compact tree you can
• branches should slope downward from the trunk (except at the apex) to portray age
• foliage ought to be seen as a scalene triangle

I tackled a problem similar to this several years ago but with a mugo pine of mine that was also a trunk and just a whorl of branches. It is a possible solution for you to think about and apply to your tree. I'm sure there are many others.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

You can chuck it into a UPS box and send it to my house ?

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Basically you have a tree with one whorl and an antenna. Lets suppose that I came over to your house and cut the antenna off, leaving you the trunk with a whorl on top - what would you do to style this tree?

We have some general guidelines to help; you know

• make the most compact tree you can
• branches should slope downward from the trunk ............ to portray age.

Ah, I see. Well the branches are now pointing downward but it doesn't look any more aged. Just kinda silly.


Okay, .....SERIOUSLY..... I will take another ..loooonnnnggggg gander at the thing and see what I can do.
...........and I just couldn't (well, I didn't try too hard) .....pass up this opportunity to get nutsy.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Okay.... I "tightened" it up a bit. Hard not to go "grotesque" if I go too far.
Not ...completely... happy with it from some angles, but I'll look at it again when the ibuprofen kicks in.

BEE ESS on "just bending".... some wires had to be REPLACED !!!

 

[0soyoung]

Better.
I think you can go a lot farther and I think it will look better if you do.

ARE YOU HAVING FUN with it YET?


btw, twist the branch so that the wire tightens as you bend.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Better.
I think you can go a lot farther and I think it will look better if you do.

ARE YOU HAVING FUN with it YET?


btw, twist the branch so that the wire tightens as you bend.

I will be having fun when I park the car on it.

The branches are SO long that I think it would take KNOTS to get them much shorter..

I'll hit it again when I take a 3rd look.

 

[0soyoung]

It seems to me that the only difference between a (possibly great) yamadori and your tree is that a yamadori's trunk would be covered with nice old bark.

The branches are SO long that I think it would take KNOTS to get them much shorter.

Yes, that is probably the case. But the branch could wend its way around the tree in one direction and then double back, all the while moving lower.

I see you have the apex stem spiraling. Try just squashing it down so that you can position the foliage on it to obscure the loops. Alternatively, you could bend it down behind the trunk, then back up so that its foliage sits just atop the whorl. ... just ideas. The interesting thing with pines (and most conifers, for that matter) is the multitude of sins that can be obscured by the foliage - the truth underneath doesn't matter as much as what appears to be true from the outside (I exaggerate, of course, but hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say).

Here are a pair of before and after photos that Harry Harrington posted today that illustrate this.

You don't have as many branches to work with, but I think you can do something just about as radical. IMHO, the fun is in trying.


Enjoy!

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Okay..... RELUCTANTLY.... I have to admit it does look better.

HOWEVER....I am happy and it isn't. If I haven't totally destroyed the lignification, it may work out good.

The tree wants your mailing address, Oso. I don't know what it wants it for but I saw it packing up a bundle of needle cast.

I also scritched out some semi hardened slimy mossy junk around the nebari as that has needed doing but I wasn't motivated.

I have named the tree, "Gumby."


it is now sulking in some screened sun and worrying about what may come next.

 

[0soyoung]

It does look a little like Eddy Murphy in a blue sponge suit

I'M GUMBY DAMNIT !


My quick take on your pix - see if you agree.

• low braches are going out horizonally and then up --> bend them into a downward trajectory (then they will slant down and then out).
• somehow bring the apex foliage down to nearly the level the branches are in the pix --> park the car on it (figuratively)

I think you can do it, the tree will survive it, and you will feel good about having done it (once you do).
Again, you were (and maybe still are) entertaining just tossing it, so there's no reason to be timid.

btw, if a branch should snap, just wrap the break in plastic wrap (saran) for a few weeks. Being held in place by the wire, it will likely be just fine.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

It's weird how 2 dimensional pictures look nothing like the tree.
In real life 3-D it is pretty cool.
I actually think that further improvement may come from some more growth and using new limbs.

Mebbe not, but it looks like it will.

Another issue is that I have looked at it and looked at it and can't "see" how to get such long limbs pointing DOWN and OUT.
Mental block I guess.

Also, doesn't sap have a harder time going DOWN rather than UP?

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Bend/bend/bend/SNAP/shit/unbend/cutpaste/stamp collecting.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Okay, I got the limbs "down n out." pretty much.
Also lopped off one of the spokes and turned the back into the front.
Can't see in pic but there's a stub jinned off at the chop.

I think I'm done til it gets some growth and provides some more material to work with.

 

[Paul F.]

"Are you suggesting scrunching them up like a demented pitchfork?

I shit myself when i read that. LOL

 

[leatherback]

think I'm done til it gets some growth

good plan. And maybe get some backbudding going.
I personally am not a big fan of overly curvy branches. I would prefer to focus on getting buds deeping in the tree and building from there.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Me too. Getting Sophia out of Twiggy is tough.

 

[Shinjuku]

This shows part of the joy and fun that can be found in bonsai - finding a tree that isn’t obviously beautiful at first and cooperating with the tree to help it evolve into a beautiful tree.