Is this Black spot fungus on my Chinese Elm?

taixonay

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I ordered a Chinese Elm and it arrived January 27th. About five days ago, I noticed that some of the leaves were falling. I didn't think much of it since I've read that chinese elms tend to lose their leaves when there's been a change in environment. But on closer inspection I noticed that the leaves were getting a bit splotchy. Some of the green leaves had black spots on them and the yellow ones had dark/black spots as well. To top it all off, I started to find little white aphid like bugs on the tree (when I googled images the closest one that matched was capitophorus hippophaes) and then when I took a closer look at the trunk, there were tiny red spider looking things. I can't really get a picture of them as they just show up as vague blurs on my camera.

Because of this, and not being able to get a response from the seller, I went ahead and repotted my tree. I scrubbed the pot, let it soak in bleach for a bit, scrubbed it some more. I also got rid of the soil that came with it. I've removed every leaf that I found had the black spots. I'm really worried that it might be black spot fungus. If it is, I've looked up some home remedies that can work as a treatment and/or preventative. I'm honestly not sure if it actually is black spot fungus. The seller contacted me while I was writing this and said it was just normal leaf dropping for a Chinese Elm, but I still want to get a second opinion.

So my main question is: Is this black spot fungus?

If it is, should I continue with one of the home remedies to treat it? I've seen a lot of places recommend using fungicide (and insecticide for bugs) and I'm not comfortable using those kinds of products if there's an effective home remedy that can be used instead.
 

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KiwiPlantGuy

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I ordered a Chinese Elm and it arrived January 27th. About five days ago, I noticed that some of the leaves were falling. I didn't think much of it since I've read that chinese elms tend to lose their leaves when there's been a change in environment. But on closer inspection I noticed that the leaves were getting a bit splotchy. Some of the green leaves had black spots on them and the yellow ones had dark/black spots as well. To top it all off, I started to find little white aphid like bugs on the tree (when I googled images the closest one that matched was capitophorus hippophaes) and then when I took a closer look at the trunk, there were tiny red spider looking things. I can't really get a picture of them as they just show up as vague blurs on my camera.

Because of this, and not being able to get a response from the seller, I went ahead and repotted my tree. I scrubbed the pot, let it soak in bleach for a bit, scrubbed it some more. I also got rid of the soil that came with it. I've removed every leaf that I found had the black spots. I'm really worried that it might be black spot fungus. If it is, I've looked up some home remedies that can work as a treatment and/or preventative. I'm honestly not sure if it actually is black spot fungus. The seller contacted me while I was writing this and said it was just normal leaf dropping for a Chinese Elm, but I still want to get a second opinion.

So my main question is: Is this black spot fungus?

If it is, should I continue with one of the home remedies to treat it? I've seen a lot of places recommend using fungicide (and insecticide for bugs) and I'm not comfortable using those kinds of products if there's an effective home remedy that can be used instead.

Hi,
I don’t think you have to worry. These yellow leaves are ok, as this elm is naturally a deciduous tree, but probably came from a warmer environment where there was little winter. Your best move was to repot out of the seller’s soil ( usually crappy).
A location in your profile would be useful to give better advice.
Also, unsure where you plan on keeping this tree, so you maybe doing this already, but (apart from tropicals) most mallsai bonsais should be kept outside. In other words it should lose all its leaves in the Fall, like a normal deciduous tree. (Or partially deciduous if in a warmer climate). My elms lose their leaves here in NZ, and my guess is Zone 8b-9 etc.
Lots of threads here to read on keeping your tree alive. Good luck,
Charles
 

Mellow Mullet

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It does look like black spot to me, especially if the green ones have black spots too. I don't know of any home remedies for fungus, but daconil works. for the critters, if you don't want to use a pesticide, try the dish soap spray (search the forum for a recipe) or some use Neem oil.
 

taixonay

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@KiwiPlantGuy: I do plan on putting my elm outside, just not yet. I don't even think it had a dormancy period since most of the leaves were green and there was already some new growth when it got to me. It'll be spring soon as well, so my elm will definitely get a nice pleasant break from the indoors.

@Mellow Mullet: This is the website that I used as a reference for home remedies http://www.offthegridnews.com/food/treating-plant-diseases-naturally/. I will also look into your suggestion of neem oil and dish soap spray. Thank you. So far I have not found anymore aphid looking creatures or tiny spiders since repotting.

@dirk hoorelbeke some of the leaves in the bag were ones that I picked up from the soil, so yes many of them may be 5-6 days old before the picture was taken. But what bothers me most is that some of my smaller, newer leaves had the black spots and turned splotchy yellow too. I thought about taking them to a local garden center to see if they could confirm if it was or wasn't, but thought that might be irresponsible to do.

I hope I'm not coming across as being combative about this. Right now I have my elm in quarantine, away from my two ficus. I want to be 100% absolutely certain that this is not a fungus before I put it back with my other trees. I really don't want it to spread. My understanding of black spot fungus is that it can be managed and treated, but can't be completely cured, right?

Thank you all for your responses.
 

Thomas J.

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Black Spot mainly affects new growth and usually in the spring when new growth is coming in and hasn't hardened off yet. If this fungus isn't taken care of right away it will continue on past the leaves and into the branches killing them as it progresses. You'll need to look past the home remedies and start using Daconil as soon as you see signs of this malady. In fact if your spring is shaping up to be a wet one start using Daconil to stop the fungus from even starting as a precautionary tool. Home remedies are good to a certain point and then when it just isn't cutting it you need to decide for the life of the tree. :)
 

sorce

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Sound like its having a tough time but it should live!

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce
 

taixonay

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When I was checking on my ficus last night I found a splotchy yellow leaf with black spots on it laying in the soil. I threw it away before taking pictures because I wasn't sure how long it had been there.

I'm starting to get really frustrated. Since black spot fungus seems so prevalent in chinese elms does that mean no matter where I get one, that will always be a risk when I add one to my collection? Should i return the chinese elm? Is that tacky? If I did return it I wouldn't even want a replacement from them because it would likely have black spot too!

As @Thomas J. said I should prioritize the health of my trees. I plan on going to my local garden center and picking up some daconil this weekend. But now that I have an indoor ficus that needs to sprayed(?) with fungicide, where am I supposed to do this during winter?
 

Thomas J.

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Okay let's take a breather for a minute. I would definitely keep the ch elm if it is a tree you like. As I mentioned above black spot usually only attacks new tender growth and the way you can tell if it's black spot is the branch right behind the leaf will be affected also taking on the look of soft and soggy and for that reason when yo begin your Daconil treatment you will need to do it as a drench from the top down making sure the entire tree will get wet. But in your case at the moment if the branches where you see the leaves you're concerned about don't look like what I just described then you don't have black spot. If you keep the tree , the spring time wet season will need to be what you're concerned about keeping the new growth as dry as possible if it's a real wet rainy season by keeping it sheltered during themes of forecasted rain. Ch. elms are great trees for bonsai and I hope you keep yours and enjoy the journey. :)
 

Thomas J.

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Here's a link to an article I wrote a few years back for Dallas Bonsai and in it I have a few words and a pic on Black Spot that one of my trees acquired back then along with some info on Scale another problem that ch. elms are prone to but easy to take care of in eliminating . Not to dissuade you from owning a ch elm but to make you aware of some of the problems you might encounter and to be ready beforehand. :)
http://blog.dallasbonsai.com/end-to-spring-break/
 

Mellow Mullet

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Here's a link to an article I wrote a few years back for Dallas Bonsai and in it I have a few words and a pic on Black Spot that one of my trees acquired back then along with some info on Scale another problem that ch. elms are prone to but easy to take care of in eliminating . Not to dissuade you from owning a ch elm but to make you aware of some of the problems you might encounter and to be ready beforehand. :)
http://blog.dallasbonsai.com/end-to-spring-break/

The pictures in that article don't look like black spot, or at least none that I have ever seen, looks more like damage from overwatering.
 

Tieball

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I’ve had that same problem on Elms. I pulled/sniped off all the leaves. The trees sent out new leaves. Then as those leaves grew I did not water the foliage when watering...just the soil level. I cleared any nearby weeds or obstacles preventing good air circulation. The problem went away. The trees came back healthy. Once the leaves hardened off they did not seem prone to the problem....but out of habit I still watered just the soil. The problem seemed to attack new, juicy young leaf growth that was wet a lot. Worked for me....and the trees.
 

Thomas J.

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The pictures in that article don't look like black spot, or at least none that I have ever seen, looks more like damage from overwatering.

Nope it's black spot, I've had it a few times on my elms. The pic I showed was from my tree and as I mentioned you can tell for sure because the damage starts to take over the branching system also and if left untreated with an anti fungal , will kill off the branch. As mentioned above, don't water from above until the leaves are hardened off . :)
 

Ming dynasty

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Im thinking my Chinese elm is having the same thing.pretty sure. If so is Daconil or mancozeb will be a better treatment? Can someone help confirm with pictures I’ve attached, thank you.
 

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